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remove multiclienting (spicy)

Discussion in 'Suggestions' started by Snork, May 21, 2023.

  1. beegoratto
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    beegoratto Zakum

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    Honestly even 5 man CWKPQ is a big loss. The EXP in CWKPQ is already poor to begin with, and diluting profits with an extra person who's just there to do mage signs and maybe dispel mage is a tough pill to swallow for a lot of runners. Not to mention you now have to recruit 1 of every class instead of just any 2 warriors as cleave. In fact, Warrior + Bucc will probably struggle to clear cleave anyways meaning you'll need to run 6 man with an extra warrior most of the time. That's 33% less money for everyone involved versus a standard 4-man.
     
  2. RegalStar
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    RegalStar Nightshadow

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    You don't have to multiclient to sign up, just sign and log off
     
    • Informative Informative x 1
  3. beegoratto
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    beegoratto Zakum

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    You'll still need useless party members to do signs/room in the PQ itself
     
  4. -ovv
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    -ovv Horntail

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    Forced inclusion and homogenizing playstyles for a dwindling server population is a really good idea guys.
     
    • Agree Agree x 3
  5. zeroxlr
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    zeroxlr Windraider

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    at this point... i'm wondering if people are trolling the suggestions to make the balance team even consider nerfing farming methods till the ML economy collapses on itself.

    less supply of equips/scrolls/CS/WS is really bad for supply and demand guys...

    https://owlrepo.com/

    more farmers = more supply = cheaper prices

    hero-image.fill.size_1248x702.v1611610167.png
    ...since imma beginner and could careless about the ML economy, although i'd like ML to last longer so I can keep playing with friends and make new friends along the way
     
    Last edited: May 31, 2023
    • Informative Informative x 1
  6. Alexa6868
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    Alexa6868 Snail

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    hello
    I like multi clients, i can play many characters, too.
     
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  7. UnknownCode
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    UnknownCode Nightshadow

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    Hi, yes I'm back.. anyway thats not important -

    Since this thread is about removing multiclient and Chris is mentioning AFK Hurricane, my reasoning to wanting multiclient removed/banned are

    1. People have crap machines, like terrible horrendous fps personally I only play maplelegends on my mac and if I'm on my PC I just go on league of legends.

    2. "AFK" Hurricane had been fixed from being used however because I have terrible fps on my device playing one just two clients my Bowmaster can still AFK Hurricane if I just hold the button and click my other client - this also works even if its a single client I'd be watching youtube or anime on the side click over to change to the next video and Hurricane would still go off, being terrified of getting banned I stopped playing my Bowmaster because of that reason.

    3. Removal of multiclient would present a true community count. (sorry I have a limited vocabulary, and my ADHD makes me forget what I'd want to say "wtf was I going to say WTF IS THAT WORD??" repeat same stuff in long paragraphs that were already said etc.)

    Just like what -ovv asked Kimmy

    Revealing the genuine number of players that play the server on a single device would be a great way for people to see how many real active players there are.

    Not many people have a device that can run multiple clients, as I've mentioned above, some people can open more than one client sure, but the game fps lags to an extent that the game will freeze, crash or your character dies and all that enjoyment is diminished so they play on a single client and even if they do, there are still issues with server ping and they would have to use a VPN, and using a VPN isn't a way to enjoy it either because most VPNs disconnect even with kill switch ON or a VPN server crashes from overloaded packets being sent resulting with the client closing regardless, and they're nicknamed Dr. Disconnect etc.
     
    Last edited: May 31, 2023
  8. zeroxlr
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    zeroxlr Windraider

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    1. having a bad machine is understandable. i played on my laptop till it burned and smoke came out of it when i was multiclienting.
    • multiclienting should be kept in, especially since it opens the way for different ways to play ML

    2. everyone can find different ways to play, so no reason to hard cap make ML worse for other people by removing multiclient
    • "AFK" Hurricane is fine too, some people just want to farm however they want

    3. community count is based on Unique IP Addresses, that means 1 computer = 1 person, no matter how many characters they login.
     
    • Disagree Disagree x 1
  9. Doguu
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    Doguu Pink Teddy

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    Single client per IP address :3
     
    • Disagree Disagree x 2
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  10. LeonardoJF
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    LeonardoJF Horntail

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    multiple internet goals


    (joke or not)
     
  11. Doguu
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    Doguu Pink Teddy

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    Yeah it's a joke, idc about ppl multiclienting but it does suck that every now and then ppl are excluded from content for classes being useless (playing class without role in pq) and classes can't get their party buffs tweaked too much or they'd be muled. I don't see the gameplay of multiclienting and the idea of muling instead of making friends that fill class roles enjoyable regardless of efficiency. I'm still not effected by it in any meaningful way so idc let the junkies get ahead, I'm gonna play a beginner and with 0 mules and leeching for fun.
     
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  12. LeonardoJF
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    LeonardoJF Horntail

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    Seriously now: I leveled my main char from 1-200 without ever having leeched, or bought leech, I never farmed as a mage either, and I only had an HS mule that I almost never used, and a si mule that I made at late level.
    most of the runs i did were not optimized, even in 199 i did 6 man zakum several times.. the point is, if you are a class that depends on a buff (or your friends are) there is no "why keep waiting" a main player
    imagine a zak run where you are a NL and you don't have an SE to go with you, either you go with a mule or you don't
     
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  13. Doguu
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    Doguu Pink Teddy

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    I think another thing to consider is mules discourage ppl to pick a class with the intent to fill a role tbf. I picked my first char as a mage bc I always loved I/L as a kid but then when I was thinking of my next char I filled the role for a playthrough specifically with friends... I'd never go in with that mentality for strangers though since everyone just has mules so it's kind of a dead concept there.
     
  14. fartsy
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    fartsy Zakum

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    what i realised over the years is that the casuals are unintentionally the sweatiest on ML. they lack damage (longer runs), hp (high risk), and infrastructure (qol) yet they band together to do things like apq or travelling down el nath to do 6 person zak. sweaties all expect some form of clean and smooth runs, wash to 30k, and make a bunch of mules solely so they can play the game more casually.
     
    • Like x 3
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  15. TerribleFool
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    TerribleFool Mano

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    if multiclient didn't exist, I wouldn't be in the position I am. I've only been playing this server for just over 2 years, and I was able to get myself into a pretty competitive position using multiclient. I wasn't able to afford leech, the only way I could level my int lord NL was to leech myself with a bishop I made. I can't imagine what it would be like leveling a 260+int NL to 135 without any form of leech, or how I would have funded leech. I was able to make myself active in the economy through 4 man CWK using my DrK I self leeched and my bish as a mule. I funded my NL almost entirely through that. My NL still doesn't have very much inventory space due to need for so many APR, and inventory mules are the only savior I have for that. I don't know how I would organize my inventories. I think inventory mules are very necessary in this game. Without multiclient, me as a semi new player would be in a significantly worse position and would probably not be very active in the community because of that. Multiclient allowed me to catch up to other players in a relatively short amount of time.

    Instead of making everyone switch to single client (which would probably kill the server) I think it would make more sense for the 30+ people that agree to this post to form an alliance/guild much like ossyrians/oddjobs in suboptimal alliance. Band together yourselves to get the experience you are looking for. Nobody is stopping you from single clienting and R> your own non-muled runs.
     
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  16. Doguu
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    Doguu Pink Teddy

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    I think most ppl actually quit before even getting close to 4th job, if you're talking endgame "casuals," I think most of them still at least buy leech unless they're challenging themselves or a mage (then they're locked out of pq content unless they're a bishop/have connections). I'd guess around the same amount of ppl that mule, wash as well but actively microing multiclients is probably a very small portion of players. Out of all of those I only wash because I'm interested in making a few strong characters (I find it a fun concept too, I didn't know it existed until like 2019 but I'm always enticed by learning optimization).

    I don't think most ppl compare their competitive position with other players, that's just a mindset you enjoy and that's why I don't advocate removing multiclienting or anything like that. I think contributing pros and drawbacks to the conversation are important though, because if there are issues how do we deal with them without removing the pros ppl enjoy.

    For instance, an issue I hope gets addressed in some way is how bosses are hardly encountered and you always have to wait for them. As a new player it can be extremely frustrating trying to complete the Stumpy quest for example and all the CHs being wiped with a lvl 150 bishop afk on the map. Most new players don't understand mapowner then the litigation can also frustrate them when they have to respond to a multiclienter half afk seemingly with their nose in the air but it's literally just because it's a hassle for both players. It's through and through a horrible experience, but the main difference it makes for most regulars is instead of farming a boss for a scroll since ppl afk characters on boss maps while they do other stuff of other clients, ppl just go buy scrolls from said multiclienters because getting their own scrolls is a hassle with them (it's still a loss too since it cost money and you don't get cards from it). Mind you this is just one example and that negative interaction alone can make the game unwelcoming.

    The rest of what you said mainly comes down to whether you want to experience and play your character (as well as experience the extremely vast early/mid-game content) or just build an army to tackle endgame content. Everyone has different experiences.

    I don't think most new players care, you're in a better position than me. I've played on and off since 2017 and think it's a meme when ppl say "economy" but I still understand it. The oddjob single client guild you're thinking ppl are here for misses the mark completely though...it's QoLs and bad experiences multiclienters may lightly contribute to that make this a discussion. The language doesn't help either though, alledging ppl want to play suboptimally because they don't multiclient is so toxic lol. There are different ways of playing, it's like saying playing corsair is suboptimal because it's not NL. Most beginners I know leech and wash anyway because beginners have a horrible HP scaling and need funding to do anything too (some oddjobs as well), similar to you they want to push an endgame except exploring it with an off-meta char instead. A lot of them still play as optimally as possible just under those pretenses.

    Unrelated but I'll let you know :p I'm at lvl 59 with 5 base luk. Rocking about 60 luk and wa from eqps. Finished epq now just grinding earlier quests (I enjoy quest grinding). Most "leech" I've done was lpq but I'd lead pt, and do assassin roles so not being a 3k dmg per hit sweat wasn't a burden either.
     
    Last edited: Jun 18, 2023
  17. fartsy
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    fartsy Zakum

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    They buy leech because there are benefits to trade in the form of comparative advantages. It's really about how you take advantage of your resources, and if your variables for production are either labor or capital, endgame players are very heavy on capital (mules, gear, etc). The more capital you have, the less labor needed for each unit of production. If the above is true, then endgame players are casuals, and casuals are sweatlords because bossing difficulty is a constant.
     
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  18. Doguu
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    Doguu Pink Teddy

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    I think you're missing the point of ppl just enjoying it and not doing it as an obligatory grind. I've seen someone without rolling for drops or another account in the pt or anything just play a lvl55 epq mule 3 times for fun no gain. This 8 mins you're shaving off per run with the multiclient grind isn't as notable as you make it sound, like ppl are just having fun and you make it sound like they're taking on some miserable experience by not multiclienting. It doesn't matter where their character lies in some power hierarchy unless *other* ppl are offended by a run taking an extra few mins. Though maybe this is also satire because everything else you said is looking too far into it for most players by a longshot lol but it sounds like you don't understand most ppl's perspective is just "this pq is fun" some might be "that was a taxing and slow pq, I might try to grind something else for fun now" and way down the line is "ugh my gains today are thwarted by these weak runners." That logic is unreal.
     
    • Agree Agree x 3
  19. LeonardoJF
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    LeonardoJF Horntail

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    I believe the point that fartsyfartsy put it makes more sense, people compare things with maple in the past, I started maple when I was 10 years old, I had time available that I don't have today, so I don't see it as a bad thing to use some mules than it takes longer to find a party than to kill a boss, unfortunately I'm an adult, I have debts and I have to work
     
  20. TerribleFool
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    I agree this can be an issue. However I think this should be a conversation about how certain area bosses are handled and not a multiclient conversation.

    This is why I recommended that people who want a single client muleless experience should form a guild/alliance that strictly does that. So that they can play the game how they want. Instead of removing multiclient like the title of this thread suggests and that 38 people agree with. Which would remove the way I want to play the game.

    I am not talking about most people I am sharing my experience and my view. And how my experience wouldn't have been possible without multiclient.

    I think you are missing my point. The alliance I am referring to is literally named suboptimal, I am not suggesting people who don't multiclient are suboptimal players because of that. I am recommending that the people who want to remove multiclient instead choose to make their own guild/alliance that plays the game to their own set of standards and achieves the experience they are looking for. Much like suboptimal alliance did and how they have their own set of metas and standards. I don't think that mindset is at all toxic.

    Yes and playing like that will take significantly longer with much more effort required, which is not an experience I am interested in having.

    I am merely advocating against removal of multiclient so that I can continue to play the game the way I like. I do not care at all how other people want to play the game. That is their decision.
     
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