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Surviving in the Post-Manniepocalypse

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Skuire, Feb 20, 2020.

  1. Skuire
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    Skuire Nightshadow

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    Good evening to you all: low level warriors, sweaty solo players, degen event farmers alike - I welcome you to this humble thread. While many of us are still in shock over the swift and sudden execution of our beloved golden goose, Mannequins, it is time we come into acceptance, band together, and seek out alternatives to the shopping mall we once called home. This thread is to be a place of warmth, acceptance, and encouragement in this cold and harsh Maple world.
    OnionCourage
    I'll start things off by sharing my data on a commonly-proposed alternative not far from home: CDs.

    [​IMG]
    Star Avenue South Section; "CDs"
    Duration: 1 hour focused grind
    Pot Burn: Low

    [​IMG]

    Gains
    Raw Meso: 762,062
    NPCed Equips: 1,885,000
    Red Envelopes: 58 (128 Rat Coins)
    Gacha Tickets: 2 common
    Experience: 5,250,200

    Character
    112 Chief Bandit, Band of Thieves + Assaulter. Pickpocket, Haste, Booster, Cider, Hog Mount.
    [​IMG]


    RATING: C-
    EXP is kinda almost as good as Kid Mannies WERE, but with much higher effort involved. The map is large and requires lots of horizontal movement. Meso and equips were lackluster, event drops were decent.

    Looking forward to your input!
    OnionHumming
     
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  2. Alyosha
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    Alyosha Skelegon Retired Staff

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    At this point I feel like it's better to just directly convert mesos into exp for the sake of understanding exactly what made Mannequins so good for mid-level players. A conservative rate would be to consider 1 meso = 3 exp but it can get quite a bit higher if you're just doing Ulu 2 leech or else find higher level leech on the cheap.

    If that's the case then you could consider getting 6-7mil exp and 4-6mil mesos at mannequins somewhere in the range of 18-25mil exp total gained from 1 hour of work, at least if you're just gonna spend it on leech in the end.

    This would put this hour of CDs at ~13mil total exp gained.

    It's probably a shitty way to play the game with this in mind, but at the same time it's probably the fault of the game for this to be the case, as efficient people will find the most efficient method available regardless of what is fun. Does it ruin the game for everyone else? Maybe, it can be hard to say but it does make the game seem less fun.

    Let's say you kill gallos and get between 7-9mil exp/hr and 2-5mil mesos/hr there. That puts them at 13-24mil exp range if you convert the mesos to exp. It's a good rate but it depends a lot upon getting bottom dex 60's.

    Or kill himes and get 8-10mil exp and 1-2mil mesos/hr. It'll seem quite small at 11-16mil total exp.

    Or a player chooses to actively pursue money for the sake of buying leech. This is doable even with large amounts of int on a first character as a lot of moneymakers are fairly low level mobs.

    Night Ghosts and Big Cloud Foxes in A Desolate Cemetery are probably one of the best moneymakers. Some hours I made 20mil there, while others I made just 4-5mil. But you can consider every Claw Attack 30 dropped to be close to 30mil exp for you, or a lucky Brown Work Glove draw in the Showa Exchange Quest to be 42mil exp. Dagger 30s, high attack Red Katanas, Overall int 70s, and Helm int 30s are other things you can expect to see in order to get some more 8-12mil exp increments. Overall there are enough drops that you can expect to walk away with something in an hour spent there.

    Drakes are another decent method of gaining money. Helm int 60's can sell for 8-10mil, but it is a lot more sporadic compared to Night Ghosts. Some hours will be dry, but on the other hand some hours will be lucky.

    If you're going to leech any amount of your exp anyways, does it really matter how you spend that time trying to progress? You'd think that it would be more efficient to train at mobs your level but the game rewards moneymaking far more than it does gaining exp in the current set up. I'm about ready to say that Nightghosts are the best exp in the game for newer players. They have much lower requirements, can be done with loads of int, and will overall drop more gachapon tickets(More kills/min -> more gachapon) for added money. Progress is progress, so it might as well be embraced.

    And all of that can be done without making a mage, if you're the sort who hates that. Or this can be done in order to get your first mage up in order to make more money later, by instead being the seller of leech rather than the buyer of leech.
     
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  3. OP
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    Skuire
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    Skuire Nightshadow

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    EXP is overrated. That's to say, the sole purpose of me training somewhere isn't to buy leech and level up. As a player I definitely value meso > exp, because there are already plenty of exploitative ways to gain absurd amounts of experience quickly (leech, Shaolin, bombing) and all the exp in the world won't help you buy/scroll better gears (other than increasing earning potential in some cases). I think it's a silly conversion. SlimeSmile

    Nightghosts have been rather awful for me so far. Needs more testing.
     
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  4. Alyosha
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    Alyosha Skelegon Retired Staff

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    Let's say a player kills Night Ghosts for 10 hours and makes 70mil in mesos, which is probably a bit of a lowball estimate. In fact it seems RedRebootz made ~10mil/hr killing them in a video https://youtu.be/d0FzfRj4y-s (Edit: Actually prices are lower now so he realistically was making 8.5-9mil/hr in modern mesos) (Edit 2: Damn I miss the old Home Alliance now, so many old faces :( Agape/Honor/Unworthy/Abyss for life)

    Let's say another player kills Gallos for 10 hours and gets 30mil in mesos and 90mil exp.

    Night Ghost player then buys 5 hours of Skele split leech at 8mil mesos/hr and gets 20mil exp/hr.

    This would put the Night Ghost player at 30mil mesos in the bank and 100mil exp earned.

    Even with shitty luck Nightghosts seem to outperform good luck from a strong player at galloperas, which tend to be the go-to method now that there are now Mannequins. The Night Ghosts player could still have the same bank as the regular player but they'd have earned more exp overall from just leeching.

    Mesos are directly convert-able to exp in buying leech. 3 exp/meso is probably the best you can expect to get from petris and skellies but Ulu 2 can sometimes reach 4 exp/meso. Since it can be measured, then it should probably be accounted for in trying to determine what the best spot to go to is. As much as it goes against good game design the maths seem to show that Night Ghosts are really powerful to anyone open to the idea of leech.
     
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  5. Motto
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    Motto Skelegon

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    filthy mage go away
    [​IMG]
     
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  6. akashsky
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    akashsky Horntail

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    The thing is though, that getting higher level does significantly increase your earning potential, to the point where I don't think your view is right until you are high enough / strong enough to participate in big money boss runs like cwkpq, horntail, etc.

    Buying leech is the same as buying better gear when it comes to damage. Both provide improvements to your damage, and your characters ability to generate more mesos.

    If you think that leeching is not fun and don't want to play that way, that is fine, but if you look at the end result, it is the correct thing to do (at least before mid fourth job).
     
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  7. OP
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    Skuire
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    Skuire Nightshadow

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    tfw my thread hijacked by leecher apologists
    LEECHERS OUT REEEEEEEEEEEEEE!!!!
    [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]
     
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  8. OP
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    Skuire
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    Skuire Nightshadow

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    Is Alyosha right? Are Nightghosts really the 200IQ farming option for players in 3rd job? Let's run some experiments!

    [​IMG]
    Zipangu: A Desolate Cemetery; "Nightghosts"
    Duration: 1 hour focused grind (x2)
    Pot Burn: Negligible

    1st hour
    Experience: 811,481
    Raw Meso: 548,042 meso
    NPCed Equips: 0 meso
    Red Envelopes: 36 (84 Rat Coins)
    Gacha Tickets: 2 common


    Valuable Items
    2x LUK Crystal Ore
    4x Mithril Ore
    683x Dark Cloud Foxtail
    727x Nightghost Bandana
    1x Red Whip
    1x Helmet for INT 30%

    Showa Exchange Results
    Foxtail: 40x Kinoko Ramen, 20x Mana Elixir
    Bandana: 30x Fish Cake, 25x Kinoko Ramen, 2x Silver Ore

    -------------------------------------------------------------------

    2nd hour
    Experience: 811,580
    Raw Meso: 516,050 meso
    NPCed Equips: 160,000 meso
    Red Envelopes: 32 (73 Rat Coins)
    Gacha Tickets: 4 common

    Valuable Items
    5x LUK Crystal Ore
    9x Mithril Ore
    675x Dark Cloud Foxtail
    757x Nightghost Bandana
    Dagger for ATT 30%
    Claw for ATT 30%


    Showa Exchange Results
    Foxtail: 1000x Arrow for Crossbow, 1000x Red Arrow, 30x Mana Elixir, 20x Kinoko Ramen
    Bandana: 3000x Red Arrow for Bow, 15x Kinoko Ramen, 20x Fish Cake, 15x Red Bean Sundae

    -------------------------------------------------------------------


    Character
    112 Chief Bandit. Assaulter, Band of Thieves, Savage Blow, Double Stab. Pickpocket, Haste, Booster, Cider, Hog Mount.
    [​IMG]

    RATING: Needs more testing!
    EXP is awful. Raw meso is low and equip drops are rare. Scrolls drop/Showa Exchange have high potential, but need to get lucky - more testing is required to measure consistency of said drops.
    Map is large, requires good movement and precision strikes. With BoT's pathetic activation range, hitting ghosts is sometimes harder than landing a punch on Ultra Instinct Goku.

    More ghost hunting to come. Looking forward to your input!
    OnionHumming
     
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  9. Motto
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    Motto Skelegon

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    I want you to rate the Chunin/Kunoichi map in Ninja Castle.

    To understand how doable it is to farm Shield W.Att as a melee class SeemsGood
     
  10. Alyosha
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    Alyosha Skelegon Retired Staff

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    Is it that time already where we give up on exp and just focus money? That's a bit feelsbad. OnionCry I am curious to see how Gallos compare though, but I feel like I did make them out to be a bit better than they actually are.

    But it does go to show how completely unbalanced late third job is when farming for money seems to be the most efficient way to play the game. I don't like it either but I accept it and admit that most of 3rd job's content should be balanced while considering leech. It just needs to be done carefully when buffing training areas buffs leech as well, unless longer maps where mage ults aren't effective are the ones buffed. Deep Ludi could use some teleports to get around and some slightly better drops. 2/3 of the mobs in Thailand's Golden Temple could use some drops, their tables are just empty aside from etcs, and the third could use some less mediocre ones. And I do think that Mannequins should probably be returned to how they were with some different anti-summon measures. Leech is just too viable for most people, and it's no wonder it's been normalized so heavily.
     
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  11. Motto
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    Motto Skelegon

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    Crimson Guardians could use some drop table, making them acceptable to grind at endgame pally tbh
     
  12. Crayo
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    Crayo Chronos

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    Shaolin Temple Square is a pretty decent duo map for 110-120. The mobs only go up to 100, so technically you can head there as early as 95 but the mobs are pretty tanky relative to their level so I wouldn't recommend it until 110. It's a big map so you definitely need a duo partner, but if you're looking for exp it's a pretty good place to be at imo.

    Meso-wise I don't think it's particularly special though, they don't have any really notable drops aside from a few good ores (mithril, black crystal) and some lvl 90/100 gear which might get you 1-2m if they're max stats.
     
  13. akashsky
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    akashsky Horntail

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    Dead mine 2 was always a decent spot for me to grind and make mesos when I was lower level.

    Map layout is bad but if you got haste and can 2 hit the zombies you should be able to get about 20ish gold teeth per hour.
     
  14. Motto
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    how much were gold teeth selling for?
     
  15. Lulinya
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    Lulinya Selkie Jr.

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    1 hour gave you that much equips, any scrolls? Anywhere I grind mobs start dropping equip after 1 and a half hour least, and the item is the shitiest one in drop pool
     
  16. Alyosha
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    Alyosha Skelegon Retired Staff

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    [​IMG]

    Tested Himes out for an hour. Probably not super accurate because that's with some significant funding at a higher level than people generally go there. But Arrow Eruption is probably similar DPM to what melee classes use anyways so it feels fair to compare it to a decently geared melee character.

    The mesos were pretty bad, 325 ginsengs cost 682.5k so the profit is actually just like 600k. But that's with 9k HP on basket and it's only part way through that I realized I could use puppet to drop like a third of the hits.

    Before HS it probably would have been 8.2mil exp/hr or so. Duoing would have been much better but I don't want to be around people so screw that.

    Overall very mediocre.

    Too bad I need to return because I only got 4/5 cards in that session :^)

    It's also too bad that I already got Gallos cards a few days ago so I don't really want to test them.

    Edit: Just finished 1 hour at Night Ghosts
    570k exp gained
    2x dagger att 30
    1x helm int 30
    350k mesos picked up
    5 Headband trades and 5 fox tail trades gave nothing.
     
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  17. OP
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    Skuire Nightshadow

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    More spooky experiments at Nightghosts!

    [​IMG]
    3rd Hour
    Experience: 820,620 exp
    Raw Meso: 538,810 meso
    NPC Fodder (now includes Use items and Showa EQ stuff): 253,421 meso
    Red Envelopes: 48 (123 Rat Coins)
    Gacha: 4 common

    Valuable Drops
    600+x Dark Cloud Foxtail (lost count because I had some in inv before starting)
    700+x Nightghost Bandana
    4x LUK Crystal Ore
    8x Mithril Ore
    1x Steely Throwing Knives

    Showa Exchange Results
    Foxtail: 1000x Arrow for Crossbow, 25x Kinoko Ramen, 4x Adamantium Ore, 5x Mana Elixir
    Bandana: 15x Ice Cream Pop, 4x Gold Ore, 15x Kinoko Ramen, 5x Fish Cake

    Got NOTHING! Definitely my worst hour thus far.

    -------------------------------------------------------------------

    [​IMG]
    4th Hour
    Experience: 827,400 exp
    Raw Meso: 562,898 meso
    NPC Fodder: 168,345 meso
    Red Envelopes: 50 (115 Rat Coins)
    Gacha: 1 common, 1 rare

    Valuable Drops
    674x Dark Cloud Foxtail
    751x Nightghost Bandana
    6x LUK Crystal Ore
    4x Mithril Ore
    1x Steely Throwing Knives
    Red Katana 82 Att
    4x Dagger for ATT 30%
    1x Helmet for INT 30%
    1x Cape for INT 70%
    1x Overall Armor for INT 70%


    Showa Exchange Results
    Foxtail: 1000x Arrow for Crossbow, 20x Kinoko Ramen, 1000x Red Arrow, 1x Blue Potion, 10x Mana Elixir
    Bandana: 35x Kinoko Ramen, 2x Gold Ore, 2x Silver Ore, 20x Fish Cake

    Best hour yet, directly following my worst hour yet! Talk about volatile...
     
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  18. RegalStar
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    RegalStar Nightshadow

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    Have you tried doing the map like this? It should be faster than gathering them to one corner since you're constnatly attacking instead of just moving a lot.
     
  19. OP
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    Skuire Nightshadow

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    [​IMG]
    More Nightghost experiments, now with spreadsheets! So far our total meso/hr comes out to about 7.5m, though it's quite common to go a whole hour (or longer) without seeing any valuable scrolls.
     
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  20. OP
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    Skuire
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    Skuire Nightshadow

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    [​IMG]
    Ghost Update: finally got a BWG from Showa Exchange! I've gotten one other in the past, but that was before I started recording data.

    [​IMG]
    Here's the latest stats on Nightghosts, after over 20 hours of SWEATY farming. One thing to note is I stopped recording data on Raw Meso/NPC Fodder to save time because those were already very consistent. Latest average as you can see is 6.6m meso/hour.
    OnionCoffee
    Nothing super special but not terrible either.

    [​IMG]
    Estimated value of drops (scrolls, equips, good ores) for every hour. One thing I'm starting to appreciate is the sheer volume of good items Nightghosts (and Dark Cloudfoxes) can drop. Mithril and LUK Ores are one of the few things you can always count on to net you at least 300k/hr, and even if you don't get something absurd like CFA30 or BWG, those DFA30/Helm INT 30/Cape INT 70 are always nice scroll drops to see. Also got a couple YACs from Showa so far. SlimeSmile
     
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