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Untradeable White Scroll and Chaos Scroll Discussion

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Mageor, Dec 30, 2021.

  1. Mageor
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    Mageor Mr. Anchor

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    Normally, I'd like to wait until the patch is released to share my input, but after reading about the changes made directly to white scrolls (WS) and chaos scrolls (CS), I would like to initiate this discussion sooner than later.

    To start off, I would like to clarify that I am not against making WS/CS untradable but simply gauging the effectiveness of this change and providing friendly feedback to the devs and the community.

    I think that making prestigious coins more easily obtainable is a great way to introduce more legendary scrolls into the system. However, making these legendary scrolls untradable may lead to the rise of new problems affecting new and existing players alike.

    Problem???

    By making WS/CS untradable, it may cause:
    1. Newly obtained/crafted white scrolls to be stuck in your item inventory. This will lead to:
      • Increased accidental usage of WS while scrolling.
      • Taking up 1~2 slots of the already limited item inventory spaces, if you are very careful with scrolling. (May be averted by exchanging WS/CS to prestigious coins)
    2. But you can exchange it to prestigious coins, so what's the problem? To exchange prestigious coins -> a WS/CS requires 100 prestigious coins + 10 mil. By exchange a WS/CS -> prestigious coins, you will be given a Mysterious Coin Pouch 5 [​IMG], randomly giving anywhere between 80~100 prestigious coins inclusively, where it would on average yield 90 prestigious coins.
      • This leads to an average net loss of 10 coins + 10m, which from first glance appears to be an unintuitive method of rewarding a player when obtaining a legendary reward such as a WS/CS through Gachapon/events raffles. (Tax excluded since selling prestigious coins would have tax implications as well)
      • What is the real reasoning behind obtaining a WS/CS from Gacha just to later be exchanged to prestigious coins? Could a better method be to remove WS/CS from Gacha/event raffles and replaced with prestigious coins/coin pouches as new rewards?
    1. G̶i̶v̶e̶n̶ ̶t̶h̶a̶t̶ ̶p̶e̶o̶p̶l̶e̶ ̶m̶i̶g̶h̶t̶ ̶n̶o̶t̶ ̶l̶i̶k̶e̶ ̶t̶h̶e̶ ̶i̶d̶e̶a̶ ̶o̶f̶ ̶l̶o̶s̶i̶n̶g̶ ̶1̶0̶ ̶c̶o̶i̶n̶s̶ ̶+̶ ̶1̶0̶m̶ ̶p̶e̶r̶ ̶W̶S̶/̶C̶S̶ ̶e̶x̶c̶h̶a̶n̶g̶e̶,̶ ̶t̶h̶i̶s̶ ̶m̶a̶y̶ ̶l̶e̶a̶d̶ ̶t̶o̶ ̶s̶h̶o̶r̶t̶ ̶t̶e̶r̶m̶ ̶W̶S̶/̶C̶S̶ ̶s̶h̶o̶r̶t̶a̶g̶e̶ ̶o̶n̶ ̶t̶h̶e̶ ̶m̶a̶r̶k̶e̶t̶,̶ ̶p̶o̶s̶s̶i̶b̶l̶y̶ ̶l̶e̶a̶d̶i̶n̶g̶ ̶t̶o̶ ̶h̶i̶g̶h̶ ̶t̶h̶a̶n̶ ̶i̶n̶t̶e̶n̶d̶e̶d̶ ̶p̶r̶i̶c̶e̶s̶ ̶f̶o̶r̶ ̶t̶h̶e̶ ̶s̶o̶l̶e̶ ̶t̶r̶a̶d̶a̶b̶l̶e̶ ̶p̶r̶e̶s̶t̶i̶g̶i̶o̶u̶s̶ ̶c̶o̶i̶n̶ ̶c̶u̶r̶r̶e̶n̶c̶y̶.̶ (Removed to avoid derailing the discussion to economic state of MapleLegends)
    2. T̶h̶i̶s̶ ̶o̶n̶e̶ ̶i̶s̶ ̶a̶ ̶b̶i̶t̶ ̶o̶f̶ ̶a̶ ̶l̶o̶n̶g̶ ̶s̶h̶o̶t̶,̶ ̶b̶u̶t̶ ̶b̶y̶ ̶d̶i̶s̶c̶o̶u̶r̶a̶g̶i̶n̶g̶ ̶h̶o̶l̶d̶i̶n̶g̶ ̶W̶S̶/̶C̶S̶,̶ ̶p̶e̶o̶p̶l̶e̶ ̶m̶a̶y̶(̶?̶)̶ ̶r̶e̶s̶o̶r̶t̶ ̶t̶o̶ ̶h̶o̶a̶r̶d̶i̶n̶g̶ ̶G̶a̶c̶h̶a̶p̶o̶n̶ ̶t̶i̶c̶k̶e̶t̶s̶.̶ ̶ ̶W̶h̶o̶ ̶k̶n̶o̶w̶s̶?̶ ̶ (Removed to avoid derailing the discussion to economic state of MapleLegends)

    This is how I currently think about this change, but I would love to hear more from my fellow maplers to gain a better understanding of this change.

    Potential solutions
    1. Remove WS/CS from Gacha/event raffles and replaced with prestigious coins/coin pouches as new rewards.
    2. In attempt to soften the blow to anyone with existing WS and CS: Convert all existing White Scroll to Ancient White Scroll, Chaos Scroll to Ancient Chaos Scroll (as done a while back to pieces of time when pink bean was introduced) while keeping the untradable tag, disabling them, and having a fixed exchange rate, for example 1 WS/CS : 97 prestigious coins (taxed 2.5% rounded up).
    3. Allow WS the extra feature to be stored in storage to prevent accidental use.
    Additional Questions to the staff:
    1. How many prestigious coins can be stacked in a single slot? 200 similar to normal etcs? or 9999 following the example of NT coins?
     
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  2. Myrosb
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    Myrosb Brown Teddy

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    I think that so long as the WS/CS can be stored in the storage npc, everything will be completely fine. As for the extra 1-2 slots, I personally will never get upset at this because I never run into the issue of holding onto to many scrolls/ important use items, as they are on my mule. This just means 2 items I usually keep in my storage are now going to be kept on my mules storage.

    I'm not going to pretend to have a lot of knowledge of the maplelegends economy, but isn't a net loss what the WS/CS market needs? From what I can tell, this will make obtaining these 2 scrolls easier, while slowing down the sale of ws/cs because of the net loss in turning it into coins or pouches.

    I feel like this system will work in addressing the problems created of having incredibly overpriced WS/CS, and down the line will need to be tuned to match the health of the WS/CS market/usage.
     
  3. CauTion
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    CauTion Master Chronos

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    as i sayed we doomed to gamble our cs\ws with only lose chances , should make it 90~110 to make it average of 100 ,
    or just exchange for 100 and that it ..
     
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  4. Motto
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    Motto Skelegon

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    You haven't tested the system to say its averaging 90 coins per CS to Coin Sack.
    The term used in the Changes thread was 90~100 coins, meaning most likely the exchange will average out at 94~95 coins (as expected)

    I don't see the issue about gacha hoarding when we are already in a gacha hoarding market at the moment.

    The only issue that we will have, as far as I can understand in economical point of view is the singularization of economic value between a WS and CS (which have different interests of application), the main issue will be, how will the coins change in value thanks to the requirements of both applications?

    If a WS is more worth (cause god scrolling 10% farmers) the coin might fluctuate to an higher value per 100x set.

    idk if I'm explaining myself but... there might be a balance between pros and cons between the two scrolls that will make the coin either fluctuate a lot during "active" times in the market and stagnate / fix its value when there is not much "activity" in the market.

    [​IMG]

    I see this balance change as a positive in terms of WS/CS "farming" possibilities plus increasing economic value of bossing for people (especially lower tier as well, even tho smaller amounts of coins, can be sold as boss drops).

    Most likely most bossing will now net a boost in meso production
     
  5. OP
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    Mageor
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    Mageor Mr. Anchor

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    Not sure where you got 90~100 coins, but the Changes thread actually states 80~100 coins. Yes, I may not have tested the system to confirm the true average, thats why it's an early assumption.
     
  6. Motto
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    Motto Skelegon

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    oof I was reading the boss drops, hmm 80~100 anyway is not bad, the 10~15 lost coins is not important, all it does it provoke a meso sink for possible chances to re-gain coins / exchange scrolls.

    So its a pretty good system in my opinion.
     
  7. CauTion
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    CauTion Master Chronos

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    what u mean not bad ? u got only chance to lose coins every SCROLL u exchange its can get a 1b lost with enough scrolls and a bad luck , scrolls u bought with money u grind ...
    .
    want make it rng ? make it both way 90~110 but the only lose option kinda sucks
     
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  8. Motto
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    Motto Skelegon

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    Which is why I said, its a good meso sink for the system.
     
  9. Karn
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    Karn Mixed Golem

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    I don't think that's meso sink, only the 10m tax from coin -> scroll is
     
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  10. Motto
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    Motto Skelegon

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    Make a WS for 100 coins + 10m [10m meso used in total]
    "Oh no I wanted a CS"

    Trades it back for 87 coins (random)... "hmm gotta buy 13 coins"
    Buys 13 coins for 1m each
    Makes a CS for 100 coins + 10m [33m meso used in total]
    Easy 23m meso sink, if a coin is rated @ 1m ea
     
  11. Karn
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    Karn Mixed Golem

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    Yeah thats right if you consider that the person did a stupid mistake.
    What I meant is the regular person who:
    "I need a CS"
    Buys 100 coins for 1m each
    Trades 100 coins + 10m for a CS
    Uses CS

    Same for WS

    Edit: Not even considering that your example also isn't meso sink, just moving mesos from one person to another
     
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  12. yurain
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    yurain Windraider

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    I have never scrolled anything with a WS in my inv yet.
    If anyone can answer, Does scrolling without Legendary Spirit auto consumes the white scroll? I do know Legendary Spirit have the check box for WS usage.
     
  13. FCOArlo
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    FCOArlo Master Chronos

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    The only meso sink is the tax on any trade. It’s not a meso sink player to player.
     
  14. CauTion
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    CauTion Master Chronos

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    "i need change back my ws\cs i hardly grinded\bought to buy end game gear cus its untradeable now"
    trade 10 scrolls and end up with 870 coins
    "heck"
     
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  15. Karn
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    Karn Mixed Golem

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    When you use it without Legendary Spirit a popup appears asking if you wanna use it or not
     
  16. farys77
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    farys77 Orange Mushroom

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    cornbread

    Yes it does.
     
  17. akashsky
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    akashsky Horntail

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    Thats your punishment for hoarding cs/ws.
     
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  18. Nightz
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    Nightz Supervisor Staff Member Supervisor Game Moderator

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    I do think it's somewhat harsh for the people that have been saving up ws in order to scroll their timeless gear but have the ws on a mule. Obviously this is only an issue now and will simply phase out.

    Good change overall but with sone collateral damage

    Don't really care about the hoarders, they had it coming
     
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  19. Cak33
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    Cak33 Headless Horseman

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    before patch notes: converting coins to ws requires unspecified amount of meso, and converting ws/cs back to coins requires unspecified amount of meso
    after patch notes: converting coins to ws requires 10m, converting ws back to coins gives you a chance to lose up to 20% of value, or not lose anything at all, averaging on 10% loss in value.

    I believe this is probably staff's attempt to drive WS down to 100m in terms of Free Market prices, hence 10% loss.

    uhhh... ain't you are supposed to lose something for every ws/cs exchange back to coins due to tax? Averaging a 10% loss is pretty fair, no?
    the idea of prestigious coin to tax ws/cs has been around for months, why only talk against it now, when its fking too late?
     
  20. Winnie
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    Winnie Timer

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    People have evaded tax using valuable item long enough , now they're fighting back OnionCrazy
     
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