Weapon Attack potion/buff Discussion [onyx apple]

i don't think u understand him

farmers will just make 20 apq mules and casuals lose anyway

 

doesn't affect endgame community as farming only happens in the free market

 

I don't think I understand you actually. Are u saying price will not change at all with cooldown tweaks? That does not seem to be what ovv is implying.

 

price will change but some people will get priced out earlier than others

 

And the issue is?

 

They are literally saying that PB runners will begin to self-farm.

Making then untradable forces runners to farm them directly in the character intended to run, significantly reducing supply, whereas supply restrictions with an increased cooldown can more or less be ignored by any player with multiple 4th job alts/mules (pretty much every single pb runner)

 

It would be a change that hurts people who use APQ as a source of income while largely not affecting balance which is the intended purpose of this thread

 

Why does it hurt people who use APQ as a source of income if apple price goes up? Genuinely curious as I am one.

 

Apple prices will be artificially capped at whatever value alternative farming methods will be priced at for end game players, as once it exceeds a certain value, they’ll farm it themselves. For most players this is around 20m an hour. Assuming you can run 5 APQs in an hour at 1 apple per APQ that caps apple price at 4m, as once it exceeds that point, end game players will just self farm.

This means with your proposed change an APQ farmer can make 4m every 24 hours instead of 3m every 6 hours.

 

i think he dont know about how pb work (1x clear per week per char)

using me as an example, I got married at lv 57, I did only a few apq because I don't like it, basically I just farm boss, it's much easier to farm some coins than to keep doing apq, and if what he said happened I could marry my other characters and use them to make apq

 

why are we even arguing with some archmage about apples? if he wanted to equalize the playing field, why didn't he just suggest having mages' single-trio target attacks stronger. -where I would disagree less on that mage buff suggestion to be honest.
my guess is that this server truly is unstable after all.

 

apples are pretty good as it is. not sure what you guys are suggesting. the barrier to apq is so low, even if u force something like level restrictions.
the server is already so old and boss runs are slowly drying up.

 

Theres are several overgeneralisations here though. Your hard cap of 4m assumes it is actually possible to run 5 apqs every hour, which would be quite difficult. 3m per hour for a normal farmer also assumes the player makes the 6 hour window every single time. Most people do need to sleep and work.

 

You don’t need to run it every hour you only need to run it once a week (5 apples a week)

even assuming someone can only make it once every 12 hours that’s still a downgrade

 

the archmage's worst attacker is probably better than the proletariat's best

might be weird but people still react to price changes so at some point farmers do step in. we probably just have different assumptions tbh

 

You are also failing to see that when the access to apples becomes more gated, the desire to run content that requires such prerequisites becomes less desirable as well.

The real winners would be the ones who lucked out by amassing their own stockpile prior to the change.

Again, this would be forced content assimilation which IMO is bad design. Rather than running APQ to run pb, I would rather do something else altogether.

 

Wait your 20m/hr profit is quoted for 1 hour of farming a week?

 

I am not failing to see that. This was my exact thought to address the drawbacks of untradeable apples. Instead of being forced to run apq, I think its better to just reduce supply and balance between profit vs convenience.

 

It’s an opportunity cost for cost-benefit analysis

If a PB player can farm 20m mesos an hour, they are faced with the following choice:
1. Farm 20m mesos and then buy apples

2. Farm the apples themselves

if apples are 20m mesos or less for the amount you can farm in 1 hour, the pb player is better off farming mesos and buying them. If they are more than that amount, then it is more worth it to just farm the apples themselves.

 

You are making the proposition that in order to reduce the supply, you'd need to inconvenience the existing laborers who provide the supply by creating a 24 hour restriction. This either forces them to make multiple mules to continue with the supply (which you agree is an inconvenience). However, if the price rises high enough due to the fallen supply of apples, end game players will simply supply the apples themselves and overstep the apple market entirely.

This results in the apple pickers being gatekept from their income source and the end game players losing their suppliers. Apple prices would go up for the remaining supply that hits the market, but as I mentioned earlier, as the prices go up, it makes more sense for the consumers to simply farm the apples themselves. The easier pathway is to simply not run content that requires apples, thus lowering the demand altogether.

In both situations, the apple pickers are losing out while there is very little change for the end game community. You're suggesting a restrictive change that will impact more those who already have fewer options while having little effect on those you are intending to impact -- the end game community who have the most options/flexibility.

There's a lot of content to run out there. PB is only at the top because of current circumstances but that doesn't mean it's impervious to changes.