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Weapon Attack potion/buff Discussion [onyx apple]

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by akashsky, Apr 19, 2023.

Are onyx apples currently balanced in maplelegends?

  1. Yes

    31 vote(s)
    30.1%
  2. No

    72 vote(s)
    69.9%
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  1. akashsky
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    akashsky Horntail

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    This is a thread to discuss the balance of attack potions in maplelegends, with the focus being on onyx apples, a legendary attack potion that gives + 100 attack.

    Before we go into discussing onyx apples, lets review of all the commonly used attack boosting items / buff available in maplelegends.

    Commonly used attack potions / buffs

    Coke Zero Pill +15 attack (sold from npc)
    Cider +20 attack (sold from npc)
    Rage +20 attack (fighter skill party buff)
    Energizer +25 attack (quest reward / drop from neo tokyo)
    HT Buff +30 attack (buff received after killing horntail)
    PB Buff +35 attack (buff received after killing pink bean)
    Heartstopper +60 attack (item drop from voodoo / psycho jack)
    Onyx apple + 100 attack (reward from amoria party quest bonus stage)
    Gelt Chocolate +120 attack (reward from cwkpq bonus stage, untradable)
    ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Class damage per second and its connection to attack potions / buffs
    For attacker classes, the DPS formula typically goes something like this:
    (Total Effective Stat[Luk, Dex, Str]) times (Total attack) times (Skill Multiplier) times (Attack speed) = DPS.

    Skill multiplier and attack speed are constants defined by your class, so the only variable ones are your stats and total attack, which vary depending on your gear or level.

    What this means is that if you were to double your total attack, you would effectively double your damage. As a result, attack potions like onyx apple are incredibly effective in increasing the performance of your character.

    Lets look at the interactions with onyx apple and a few levels of NL funding. Nightlords are also one of the classes that gain the most from extra attack, so strong onyx apples shift balance in the favor of nightlords. Note that HTP / TL pendant is used over MoN because chaosing a MoN is too expensive and overall inconsistent.
    Decently geared NL:
    71 attack claw, 6 attack cape, 14 attack glove, 30 attack stars
    Total attack with Cider: 71+6+14+30+20 = 141
    Total attack with apple: 71+6+14+30+100 = 221
    % gain with apple: 221/141 = 1.56737589
    Decent NL (which already outputs decent DPM) becomes 56.7% stronger with apple.

    Well geared NL:
    76 attack claw, 10 attack cape, 15 attack glove, and 30 attack stars.
    Total attack with cider: 76+10+15+30+20= 151 attack.
    Total attack with onyx apple: 76+10+15+30+100 231.
    % gain with apple: 231 / 151 = 1.52980132.
    Well geared NL (which already outputs solid dpm) becomes 52.98% stronger with apple.

    Perfect Gear NL:
    90 attack claw, 17 attack cape, 21 attack glove, 8 attack shoes, and 31 attack stars
    Total attack with cider: 90+17+21+8+31+20 = 187
    Total attack with apple: 90+17+21+8+31+100 = 267
    % gain with apple 267/187 = 1.42780749
    Perfect gear NL (which already outputs top tier dpm) becomes 42.78% stronger with apple.


    Idea #1 Attack nerfs across all potions / buffs
    Lower the attack added by attack potions across the board to balance out the effectiveness of onyx apples.
    Coke Zero Pill +15 attack -> +10 attack
    Cider +20 attack -> +15 attack
    Rage +20 attack -> no change as heros need more meta relevance
    Energizer +25 attack -> +20 attack
    HT Buff +30 attack -> +25 attack
    PB Buff +35 attack -> +30 attack
    Heartstopper +60 attack -> +40 attack
    Onyx apple + 100 attack -> +80 attack
    Gelt Chocolate +120 attack -> + 100 attack

    This will lower the gap between all classes when using the stronger attack pots. Furthermore, if minimal changes are desired, it would also be fine to ONLY lower onyx apple to 80, and gelt to 100.

    Idea #2 Accessibility nerfs to specific potions
    Balance powerful attack potions by making it so that they are not available to be used 100% of the time with little cost. This can be done by making certain attack potions untradable.
    Untradable design
    Coke Zero Pill +15 attack -> no change
    Cider +20 attack -> no change
    Rage +20 attack -> no change
    Energizer +25 attack -> no change
    HT Buff +30 attack -> no change
    PB Buff +35 attack -> no change
    Heartstopper +60 attack -> no change
    Onyx apple + 100 attack -> untradable
    Gelt Chocolate +120 attack -> untradable

    Alternatively, it is also possible to make onyx apples "one of a kind" but tradable, similar to the ETC item used to summon papulatus.

    Idea #3 Remove certain potions from the game
    Remove onyx apple and gelt chocolate as rewards from APQ, and CWKPQ respectively, and give all existing onyx apple / gelt chocolate an expire date (like what was done for witch stews a while back). The expire date should be at least 6 months into the future. APQ and CWKPQ will also need the bonus drop table revised a bit to compensate for the nerf.

    Idea #4 No change
    It might be the case that onyx apples are a perfectly balanced item with no changes required.

    Are onyx apples currently balanced in maplelegends?
     
    • Great Work Great Work x 4
    • Informative Informative x 3
    • Disagree Disagree x 2
    • Like Like x 1
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