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Weapon Attack potion/buff Discussion [onyx apple]

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by akashsky, Apr 19, 2023.

Are onyx apples currently balanced in maplelegends?

  1. Yes

    26 vote(s)
    28.6%
  2. No

    65 vote(s)
    71.4%
  1. beegoratto
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    beegoratto Skelosaurus

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    You are more than welcome to re-read what I wrote about specifically how the problems are different with the original suggestions

    You seem very invested in my so called lack of an opinion. I wonder which of us is actually arguing for the sake of arguing. Either way this is completely derailing the thread so I’m going to stop replying.
     
    • Great Work Great Work x 1
  2. brunandes
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    brunandes Windraider

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    Of course, arguing without an actual opinion and backtracking where convenient is akin to trolling since it is unclear where you stand. That is not very productive.
     
    • Disagree Disagree x 1
    • Creative Creative x 1
  3. mjk
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    mjk Master Chronos

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    can you guys settle this in DM's or something?
    Massive spam to the thread with no substance and off topic
     
    • Agree Agree x 7
  4. TORONTOTOKYO
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    TORONTOTOKYO Windraider

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    re-iterating what this thread could be.
     
  5. fartsy
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    fartsy Skelosaurus

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    we have less runs now so there's way more free agents floating about. now is the perfect time to make a squad actually
     
    • Informative Informative x 1
  6. TORONTOTOKYO
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    TORONTOTOKYO Windraider

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    implementation of ideas #1 and 3 will effectively shut down certain classes/weaker geared players amongst these free agents.
    ditto to other comments about idea #2.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  7. yurain
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    yurain Windraider

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    Apple has literally been the only way for weaker player to play certain end game content.
    Either to make up for their int at the earlier HT levels, or make up for their poorer gear at earlier PB level.

    Buy nerfing apple accessiblity to the newer player in anyway is like pulling the ladder off after you been though.
    Though it is not like we havent done anything like this before on the server.
     
    • Agree Agree x 2
  8. philip
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    philip Mixed Golem

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    I have to go with option #4. I feel like as long as we have a 90 minutes timer for PB and not a 60 minutes timer. The apples 100 Wa is needed to clear PB in 60 minutes, which was the actual OSMaplestory timer. Having the Kimmy timer on 90 minutes timer feels really wrong to me. I Hope it will get shorter over time maybe 75 min next.
     
  9. TORONTOTOKYO
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    TORONTOTOKYO Windraider

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    from all the comments above, we can see the kickers and the kickees
     
  10. Zorele
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    Zorele Slimy

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    A bit late to the thread but i feel like this change in particular without balance changes to classes would relatively increase the "class disparity". Decreasing wiggle room = less room for suboptimal classes to be played.

    Either way PB in legends is already very far from what it normally is so at this point considering timer changes because of it's original amount wouldn't be a fair reasoning. If anything keeping the same timer and nerfing apples would have a similar effect on increasing difficulty while helping with the said class disparity.
     
  11. Dimez
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    Dimez Stone Golem

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    You pasta people are so incredibly sweaty and lame, go outside or invite a hero to your pink bean or something
     
    • Agree Agree x 4
    • Great Work Great Work x 1
  12. DrChuchu
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    DrChuchu Balance Team Staff Member Balance Team

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    Hmm if the issue is inequality in terms of class balance and easy accessibility to big +watt, why not just change all attack pots to +%? That way you still require gear to scale and pots should affect classes relatively evenly.

    Probably not nostalgic in the least but we would need significant overhaul to address these issues regardless, assuming staff actually wants to change things.
     
    • Like Like x 1
    • Agree Agree x 1
  13. Mageor
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    Mageor Mr. Anchor

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    I'm sure all the sub 20 man pb runs are recruiting only NLs because apples are the problem.
     
  14. iPippy
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    iPippy Nightshadow

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    PB is virtually only NLs because they don't need their monitor on to survive statue seduce. Their high damage, damage efficiency, and longer apples (which scale well too) are just icing on the cake. It's the defense pick and the offense pick in one slot.

    The apple situation is different from pb though (but affects pb). 20 and lower man pb is currently carried by nl, with shad waiting in the wings. Apple changes likely wouldn't affect that balance much as there's only so many slots in the shield parties to not bring ez mode thieves. And it's not as if NL already didn't do sufficient damage w/o apple. Shad bombing also could potentially scale in if att pots are hit hard enough.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
    • Informative Informative x 1
  15. philip
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    philip Mixed Golem

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    - It probably would be for the casual pb squads, but they would have to optimize and the same with the experienced PB squads. PB isn't supposed to be a trip to Disneyland man it's the last boss in the game. Honestly, if the squad isn't optimized and the PB runs keep failing. I don't think the game should wait for that squad to keep up no matter how many staff members you have in your pb squad.
    • Either way, PB in Legends is already very far from what it normally is so at this point considering timer changes because of it's original amount wouldn't be a fair reasoning. If anything keeping the same timer and nerfing apples would have a similar effect on increasing difficulty while helping with the said class disparity.
    - Stuff like mw30 isn't even giving its original stats, which is 15 % and not 13 %. When you say it's fair and suggest Onyx apples should be 80 wa I want you to know that sub 20-man squads can clear PB in just 62 minutes(this is only because the squads stop appling). changing onyx apples to 80 wa is just lame and lazy balancing.
    Lame because so much time and love has gone into Amoria and Apq and players actually like that content and getting those Onyx apples to either use for bossing or to sell. 80 wa would disincentivize farming these or the price might drop.
    Lazy balancing because it's just too easy. PB won't get more fun or more challenging with this. I think maybe this 80 wa change can be suggested after PB has a timer of 60 minutes one day when its too easy to clear PB when its not already have an extended timer. Also, Imagine that those x5 Bishop mules and DK mules actually have to play to just squeeze in that little extra dmg. Ballance team should aim to make changes after the OSMaplestory version of the game and stop making lazy decisions that make the game more clunky, boring and time-consuming
     
    Last edited: May 10, 2023
  16. RegalStar
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    RegalStar Nightshadow

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    Option #5: Introduce starforce and potential into the game so everyone has so much attack that apples become a much smaller fraction of character's power

    Real Option #5: Change stoppers, apples and gelts to attack% effects (in the same category as echo) so everyone (even mages) derives the same amount of benefit from them.
     
  17. beegoratto
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    beegoratto Skelosaurus

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    Weak Nimbus mentality
     
    • Informative Informative x 1
  18. beegoratto
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    beegoratto Skelosaurus

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    I’d imagine this would have issues interacting with Echo but I don’t know enough about the backend to say for sure
     
  19. brunandes
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    brunandes Windraider

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    It is not even as the absolute difference still increases for classes that scale better with more wa. E.g. a stronger class that does 2 dmg vs a class that does 1 dmg both x 1.5 will just become 3 vs 1.5. The difference in damage increases from 1 to 1.5.

    What % increase does is to reward people with stronger gear to allow them get even more from attack pots. Similar to nerfing/removing apples, it just punishes weaker players.
     
  20. TORONTOTOKYO
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    TORONTOTOKYO Windraider

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    but u said this earlier....
     
    • Informative Informative x 1

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