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What is the worst class?

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Selquin, Oct 16, 2021.

What is the worst class?

  1. Hero

    33.2%
  2. DK

    8.3%
  3. Paladin

    17.1%
  4. Shadower

    12.3%
  5. I/L

    5.1%
  6. F/P

    5.1%
  7. Bishop

    3.2%
  8. Corsair

    3.7%
  9. Bucc

    2.4%
  10. BM

    2.4%
  11. MM

    2.9%
  12. NL

    4.3%
  1. ori ram
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    ori ram Slime

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    1:45 PM
    snipemaster
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    Nah i have fun at all these jobs lol
     
  2. S_tieralbum
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    S_tieralbum Brown Teddy

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    8:45 PM
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    What's some cleave favorable endgame content ? LHC?


    Also, the underutilised talking point in the Hero discussion is definitely, as others have mentioned, Panic/Coma.

    As people have pointed out, Hero is already the strongest cleave, buffing its overall damage still leaves it as weak single target DPM while making it needlessly stronger at cleave.

    Buffing Panic does 0 for its cleave damage as hitting 2-3 targets with Brandish and maintaining Combo stacks will outdo Panic easily. But in single target, a more demanding rotation other than holding down button 1 could justify Panic dealing better single target damage and being worth using at max stacks.



    At the same time, some complaints that could be levied:

    A) More complexity for Hero? But it's meant to be a simple class -
    Fair criticism, except since most people quite reasonably rule out a buff to Hero's overall DPM or cleave, it doesn't change Hero's complexity/rotation from its current situation if you don't wish it to.

    It has 0 effects first off on how you play anywhere where you're hitting multiple targets.

    Secondly, with this buff you can still hold Brandish for the same single target DPS as currently true, but to optimise you'd need to Panic when you hit max combo stacks. It's the same as optimising DPM with any job. You haven't lost anything (there's no opportunity cost because cleave damage almost certainly will not be buffed, the tradeoff isn't the possibility of better Brandish damage).
    You don't have to hit dismounts with Corsair but you will improve your DPM if you do so. Of course the difference in DPM between a Hero including Panic in their rotation and a Hero holding down Brandish should be much less than the difference for a Corsair playing perfectly, seeing as the intensity demanded is also much less for the Hero.


    Thirdly, to justify Hero having close single target DPM to Paladin would require it hold some other trade off, especially since Paladins are also casting Heaven's Hammer. And justifying its gap from DK would require the same seeing as DKs have to micromanage HP/pots.



    B) Hero shouldn't have any better single target DPM, it's intended to be cleave only.

    Which feels refuted in part from this thread. It's overwhelmingly considered the weakest class right now, for the fact that content is vastly single target sided or mage ult sided. Meaning either endgame content can change to accommodate Hero or Hero can be buffed to meet current standards.

    Let's look through these scenarios:

    1. Endgame content being overhauled is a much more substantial/taxing change than a numerical buff to Panic. This is also not just a problem for one boss, but for a very sizeable majority of bosses and just about all the relevant endgame bosses single target is favored. Exacerbating the difficulty of making these overhauls.

    2. Hero can be buffed in flat/cleave damage. This has already been explained to death in this thread why this is a poor and counterproductive change. TL: DR; Hero is already the cleave king, but it happens to sit on a throne that current rules nothing. Buffing this makes it pointlessly stronger at its niche while leaving it still the worst attacker pick elsewhere.

    3. Hero can be buffed in single target damage. This is the last choice. Seeing as the above two are ruled out this would be the clear winning bid for a Hero buff. And seeing as Hero has 1 4th job cleaving skill and no single target attack aside from Power Slash and Panic. A Panic buff seems like the most viable notion here outside of something as custom as introducing an entirely new skill/mechanic to the job.


    C) This is too different from OG Maplestory.

    On the contrary, it feels like it's kind of closer in spirit to what the job was meant to be. Why does the job have combo orbs and finishers if they're useless?

    The original design for the maple jobs was obviously not for any job to not have access/have no use for any particular skill. Every single skill is meant to have some level of use, it's because of the poor balance of Crusader's 3rd job that it basically has 1 skill to max at 3rd and everything else is cosmetic at best.

    It's also not a consistent belief if people would actually criticise a Panic buff in this way. For years people have wanted Final Attack fixed/usable in some shape or form. Even though this would be 'different' from v62 where FA is as unusable as it is right now. The majority of people clearly want better balance among all skills, a revival of some neglected ones. Rather than just the most identical proxy to the poorly balanced state of pre BB
     
    • Like Like x 3
  3. CauTion
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    CauTion Timer

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    Nov 5, 2019
    Israel
    1:45 PM
    Thief
    400
    Siege
    so many crying on heros yea these not much cleave in game but what would shad say ?
    isnt hero cleave and single target outdpmed him ? kek
    numbers showed its the worst dpm with buffs ,without buffs ,cleave or range pretty sad i hope the nate+bombing will buff it
     
  4. flow
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    flow Slimy

    245
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    256
    Jan 18, 2021
    Male
    Brazil
    7:45 AM
    Lisnar, HolyFlow, Theorist
    Buccaneer
    166
    Funk
    with that shit allowed we have people farming with pentamage, when people with worse computers can't even open 3 clients, seems more ptw to me right now...
    Just make it against the ToS and keep a eye on it, it's not worth it bringing a SED/SE mule to make runs 2 minutes fasters with the ban possibility
     
  5. -ovv
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    -ovv Horntail

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    When the multiclient ban happened, people resorted to swapping mules for each others' runs. :^)
     
  6. flow
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    flow Slimy

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    Why is this a problem? My point was the farm anyway xD, and it ways harders swap mules with friends, its not practical
     
  7. Cak33
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    Cak33 Headless Horseman

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    its p2w, most people can only use one client, but those who paid can use multiple by buying more PCs
     
  8. flow
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    flow Slimy

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    good pc= 5 or more clients, its more common than having 2 or more PCs lol, and making this against ToS is good enough, 2 PCs = ban, the server taking bad decisions because they can't ban people doing illegal things is just sad
     
  9. LeonardoJF
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    LeonardoJF Horntail

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    Jun 16, 2021
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    Rio grande do Sul - BR
    7:45 AM
    ItzLeo
    Paladin
    200
    Favela
    i agree with you that is a bad problem
    i think if limited to 1 client and 1 pc will have some troubles when in home more of 1 peoples play.

    btw the block only should be on late game bosses, in SobletSoblet journal u can read that he did solo all pqs since spend more time finding peoples, we all are adult and dont have time to spend when took more time to made a party than run the boss


    TRDR: agree that block can go for high end boss, not for small ones
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  10. Annolis
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    Annolis Skelegon

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    Marchilles/Annolis/ Atlan/Katroz/ Chokal/Corvack/Tisif/ Quallo/Crisilixin/Forg/ Nannosh/Tylius
    Crusader, White Knight, Dragon Knight, F/P Mage, I/L Mage, Priest, Ranger, Sniper, Hermit, Chief Bandit, Marauder, Outlaw
    120
    Eternals
    For transparency, I, too, also solo'd KPQ, OPQ, and even PPQ because trying to find people would have taken too much time. Fortunately for me, LPQ was still so popular back when my chars were LPQ levels that I could always find a party. MPQ is chancy for it's solo-ability because of the drop rates on the passes. EPQ was not a thing until my chars were 3rd Job. I did do a LOT of soloing of the Zakum Dead Mines to create a lot of Dead Mine Return Scrolls. I don't ever WANT to solo, but sometimes it's either faster (finding people), easier (to get cards), or more lucrative (crafting items).

    I do not, however, leech my own chars. I understand if people do some heavy washing they have no option but to leech, and leeching yourself is cheaper than not, but I still believe in doing your best to play the game with 1 char on at a time to the best of your ability. Because the server population is not at the levels of GMS, this rule needs to bend when necessary, but bending it just because you can isn't bending the rule, it's breaking it.
     
    • Friendly Friendly x 1
  11. Cak33
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    Cak33 Headless Horseman

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    so make it similar to sticky key hurricane? something that is against TOS but have no reliable detection to do so
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  12. -ovv
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    -ovv Horntail

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    Because trying to funnel players further and further into one-dimensional type of play will only push some to get more creative with their solutions which will in turn bite staff in the ass by further dichotomizing the player base.

    Just trust me on this one. There are a few looming changes that I feel like staff might be considering, and it will only make things worse.
     
    • Agree Agree x 4
    • Useful Useful x 2
  13. flow
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    flow Slimy

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    Hey buddy, i don't need trust on you on this one since i already agree with you, you're right.

    My whole point here is not about nerfing the mage farming, it is on making it less about 4+ mages and more about playing the game and doing actual rotations.
    About multiclient bossing i changed my mind, probably multiclient still the best, mules are toxic but somehow... necessary.

    I played private maplestory servers BBB for at least 4 years (yes, not that much but is a good time already), and only on the last months i was able to buy a good PC able to open more than 3 clients without lag (4 was almost impossible for me even 800x600 with lowest graphics), and yes, this is more usual than you guys think, and it is not the only problem, this isn't should be a thing in my view, they should nerf droprate of normal monsters when they had multimages on the map and buff a little bit the droprate of only one, just making the gap between 2 not worth enough to level 4+ mages anymore, but good enough to people who always had keep doing it.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  14. Jafel
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    Jafel Capt. Latanica

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    Worst class is clearly Corsair. Punished unfairly hard for being a theoretical powerhouse. Boat speed/jump sucks, no avoid/stance doubles down on the boat issue(s). :)
     
    • Disagree Disagree x 6
    • Agree Agree x 1
  15. OP
    OP
    Selquin
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    Selquin Headless Horseman

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    4:45 AM
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    Bowmaster, Night Lord, Buccaneer
    200
    Pasta
    At this point, I'm afraid this is pretty much a player skill issue. A properly played corsair should never be moving on the boat, only jump attack forward and recoil shot backwards to adjust positining. Corsairs boast top tier dpms at pretty much every boss in the modern age, and the highest HT body dpm is held by a mid-high tier gear corsair by a large margin.
     
    • Agree Agree x 7
    • Like Like x 1
    • Informative Informative x 1
  16. Jafel
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    Jafel Capt. Latanica

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    You're clearly right as an endgame player from that endgame perspective. However, for a game that in no other area showcases the need for player-skill it sure is a weird gameplay decision to make one class (arguably three if you include Bucc and endgame bossing Bishop) punished extremely unfairly for mediocre player skill.
     
  17. mard
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    mard Mixed Golem Retired Staff

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    Pretty much every job requires player skill to be played efficiently so it's not unique to sairs at HT.
     
    • Friendly Friendly x 2
    • Agree Agree x 1
  18. -ovv
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    -ovv Horntail

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    I'd argue that classes that are harder to optimize/reach maximum potential should be rewarded with a higher payout/reward. That's a general design concept for any skills-based game. Corsairs fall under this category and I think they're designed very well (including their shitty 3rd job experience, which most people skip anyways).
     
    • Agree Agree x 5
  19. LeonardoJF
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    LeonardoJF Horntail

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    this reforce my point that the worse class is the one you don't like/know how to play
     
    • Like Like x 1
    • Agree Agree x 1
  20. OP
    OP
    Selquin
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    Selquin Headless Horseman

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    That is a boring PR non-answer, there are objective metrics which we can use to compared different classes, controlling for playing skill.
     
    • Like Like x 1
    • Informative Informative x 1

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