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Economy Changes to Diversify Play Styles

Discussion in 'Suggestions' started by Kirisame, Jan 23, 2024.

  1. Kirisame
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    Kirisame Selkie Jr.

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    How does the economic system affect player behavior?

    Players need resources such as EXP, equipment, scrolls, materials, etc. to progress in the game. For example:
    • Players will hunt Zakum in order to obtain Zakum Helmets.
    • Players will participate in APQ in order to obtain Onyx Apples.
    • Players will farm Veetrons at ulu1 or ulu2 in order to obtain Red Cravens.

    Neckson originally designed this game for them to profit.

    Players will have to spend NX to buy Gachapons in order to obtain end game materials (CS/WS, 30% scrolls, PGC, etc.).

    MapleLegends originally retained the gachapon available for purchase with NX. However, NX no longer needs to be purchased with money, but can be obtained through voting. This will encourage players to vote.

    In 2018, shortly after I joined, MapleLegends decided to remove Vote2Win, which I think was a great decision. So gachapon became only available as drops from monsters. Obviously, this is to encourage everyone to grind or farm.

    Under these conditions, some smart people found a way to maximize efficiency using multi-mage farming. It's now well known to most people, and dwarfs single-mage farming.

    Although it has been nerfed several times, it is still the most efficient way to obtain resources.

    Later, some other changes were made, such as:

    • 30% scrolls can be obtained from CWKPQ.
    • Prestigious Coins (material to craft CS/WS) can be obtained by defeating high-level bosses.
    These are good changes that effectively makes CWKPQ and boss hunting an alternative to farming.

    But these gameplays have high barriers to entry. For newer players, they still need to rely on farming to reach this threshold.

    What is the problem?

    Not every player likes (EDIT: mechanically repeat the mage ultimates for) farming.
    The efficiency of farming varies greatly between classes. A player needs to play a mage in order to farm efficiently, even if the class he really wants to play is an archer. To make matters worse, now he may need to play multiple mages.

    This discourages many new players. And we need new players to join to maintain the existing community.

    Are there any alternatives?

    Yes, but not much. Such as APQ and Event PQ.

    The great thing about APQ is:
    • It provides a consumable item (Onyx Apple) that endgame players need.
    • It’s an exclusive item, you can’t farm apples nor gacha for it.
    • It requires active playing in the reward stage (prevents muling).
    • Its entry barriers are relatively low.
    However, It is still possible to multi-client in APQ in multi-channels.

    Event PQ has been changed to be better

    For example, it now requires some skills and active playing to defeat the snowman quicker in snowman PQ, making muling no longer an advantage.

    How can we change?

    The following proposal is just a demo to illustrate my ideas.
    It will need community wisdom to be more mature.

    Guidelines
    1. Give lower level players more access to end game consumables.
    2. These consumables should not be farmable elsewhere.
    3. Require time and effort to obtain such items.
    4. Encourage active playing, prevent muling.
    5. Encourage trading between players.
    6. Encourage class diversity.
    7. Enforce a daily and weekly cap, to prevent abuse.
    Proposal
    Since we already have custom systems like

    CS/WS = 40 Prestigious Coins + 30 Prestigious Diamonds + 30 Prestigious Crystals.
    These names are just to distinguish different materials.

    Prestigious Coins (High level Boss)
    Obtainable from: Pink Bean, Horntail, Neo Tokyo, Toad, …

    These are the coins we are already familiar with.

    Prestigious Diamonds (Low level Boss)
    Obtainable from: Ravana, Papulatus, Zakum, Krexel, …

    The lower the average level of the squad, the higher the drop rate.
    (mules and buyers should not be counted, but how?)

    Prestigious Crystals (PQ)
    Obtainable from all party quests (including CWKPQ, GPQ)

    Party quests will have their level caps unchanged.
    Higher level players are welcomed to create new characters to join low level PQ.
    To prevent muling/soloing, Reward stage should be in LPQ style, not KPQ style.

    How to set the cap?

    PQ without caps will drop (untradeable) Prestigious Crystal Ores.
    Players can refine Prestigious Crystal Pouch using Ores by a daily quest.

    Estimated Result

    For a level 50 player
    He can sell P.Crystals to level 200 players, and afford zakum helmets.

    For a level 100 player
    He can sell P.Crystals to level 200 players, and afford some leech.

    For a level 150 player
    He can sell zakum helm service to more level 50 players (previously unable to afford).
    He can also sell P.Diamonds to level 200 players.
    He can buy better bossing gears from level 200 (whether it’s retired or clean boss drops).

    For a level 200 player
    He won’t need to farm using multi-mage as much as before to perfect his gear.
    He could spend more time bossing and sell gears / services to lower levels and buy materials from them.

    Final Words

    I’m borrowing some ideas from other MMORPG games.

    The core idea is to let players in different stages work for different resources and trade with each other. So making progress is no longer so mechanical.

    Any thoughts?



    EDIT 1: Reward jump quest also?
     
    Last edited: Jan 23, 2024
    • Like Like x 2
    • Disagree Disagree x 2
    • Agree Agree x 1
    • Creative Creative x 1
  2. beegoratto
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    beegoratto Zakum

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    PrestigiousLegends
     
    • Agree Agree x 6
  3. kiwiz
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    kiwiz Skelegon

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    I think introducing more "currencies" makes the game more complex than it needs to be. What makes mob farming more lucrative are the drops, like gears and gachas, which PQs are lacking. I feel this can be addressed by rewarding a gacha ticket for every n amount of PQs completed. And low-level bosses already drop coin pouches.

    This system seems to favor rich players who already owned high-tier gears like high-attack gloves and capes that they can share to their lower level characters. Established players can make these relatively easier to boost their low-level characters, making them much stronger than they should be. This, in turn, requires smaller parties and, according to your suggestion, would make it more rewarding. This will separate the rich and powerful players from the weaker ones, encouraging the former to form their own parties for efficiency. Meanwhile, weaker players may struggle with finding parties, having to form larger parties, and longer runs for minimal rewards.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  4. DrChuchu
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    DrChuchu Balance Team Staff Member Balance Team

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    The issue isn't the lack of things to do for new players. This game is inherently a farming game, only mitigated by your ability to buy leech and your mentality to not consider bossing as just farming really tanky mobs. Having monetary incentives isn't going to skirt past having to grind your first character to 13x.
     
    • Agree Agree x 10
    • Disagree Disagree x 1
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  5. Jaewonnie
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    Jaewonnie Capt. Latanica

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    Isn't the new player experience easier than ever (aside from NLC pot increase)? Zak helm is down from 20m to <10m, gen20 went from 35m to worthless, scar/targa helm is another example etc. There aren't really that many necessary and expensive equips in early game that calls for a early game monetary buff. And if there were, I'd simply add a few more useful scrolls in PQ rewards.

    The slog from lv70-120 is mostly grinding which should be net profit depending on where you farm. Although the viability of grinding depends on how much base int you have (but that's a separate discussion).

    And once you hit bossing level (>125) you can start farming pouches/cwkpq and which should help meet needs for equipment upgrades.
     
    • Agree Agree x 2
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  6. -ovv
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    -ovv Horntail

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    Why would you want to lock end game content behind low level, level restricted content?
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  7. Kargo
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    Kargo Skelegon

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    Anything that buffs PQs is a good suggestion imo.

    PQ's are probably the first place where (new) players:
    - Learn about the importance Monster Book Cards
    - Learn rolling for stuff (@ roll)
    - Find (new) friends and guilds
    - Have to work together
    - And with this system would also learn about the Prestigious Coin system (though having normal coins as a rewards would also work)

    Besides that PQ's are an actual objective instead of mindless grinding, something I don't think many people enjoy too much anyway.

    This combined with the exp buffs from this: https://forum.maplelegends.com/index.php?threads/make-pqs-great-again.45319/ suggestion and maybe I will never be waiting for an hour or more to find a party again XatGrin
     
    Last edited: Jan 23, 2024
  8. OP
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    Kirisame
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    Kirisame Selkie Jr.

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    First of all, it's not locked, CWKPQ and GPQ are availble for end game players.
    On the contrary, I'm preventing end game items to be created merely from low level contents.
    If we just let LPQ drop P.Coins, people can just repeat LPQ to make CS/WS.

    Besides, we are lacking new contents. But some lower level content is being wasted, such as OPQ, MPQ, PPQ.
    End game people can create new characters to enjoy that content and get their end game materials.
    It will also make new players easier to find a party.

    And most importantly, people get to know each other from party playing.
     
    Last edited: Jan 23, 2024
  9. OP
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    Kirisame
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    Kirisame Selkie Jr.

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    Fair enough. I may need to change the way I phrase it.
    It's not that these people don't like grinding their characters.
    It's that they don't want to create a mage and mechanically repeat the mage's ultimates for farming.
    They prefer party playing and socializing.
     
  10. OP
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    Kirisame
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    Kirisame Selkie Jr.

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    They can still play the game in the old way if they don't sell these items to other players.
    If they sell, they create supplies for end game players. Exchanging their effort of playing with an old player.

    Besides, It's not all about new player experience. It also adds content for end game people.
    Sometimes I miss the low level party quests but feel like it's not worth playing.
     
    Last edited: Jan 23, 2024
  11. mjk
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    mjk Master Chronos

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    There are plenty of ways to make good income currently without multi-maging.

    seems like people still find it easier to blame the multi-mage boogeyman for all their problems in the game

    As many people have pointed out it is easier than ever to get the gear required to participate in all content. The game is inherently easy which is partly why people pursue new arbitrary goals to min max every piece of gear by spending hundreds or thousands of hours generating wealth in order to make boss runs insignificantly faster
     
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  12. lv1crook
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    lv1crook Capt. Latanica

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    I don’t see the point in changing pcoins in zakum when it is already one of the better sources of pcoins in the game
     
  13. Pixel
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    Pixel Mixed Golem

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    You sound so obnoxiously arrogant
    People like farming
    Not everyone likes playing mages.

    I wanna play an old school maplestory server (which Legends claims to be)
    I want to play a class that i want
    I do not want to be forced into playing multi mage in order to be able to afford stuff, because we decided to change the system to favor mages, because multimaging is an issue born of the droppable gachas and allowing multiple clients to be open at once.
     
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  14. -ovv
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    -ovv Horntail

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    You can do all these things already in the current system without multimaging.
     
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  15. fartsy
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    fartsy Zakum

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    can someone pay us not to gach or something yet
     
    • Informative Informative x 1
  16. OP
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    Kirisame
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    Kirisame Selkie Jr.

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    The rewards you get from it are so poor compared to other ways to play.
    That's why we need it balanced.

    We have already fixed some of the design flaws in the original game (skill changes, prestigious coins, hp wash challenges).
    Why not fix more?
     
  17. fartsy
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    fartsy Zakum

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    you can actually make 20ish mil per hour without any mage infrastructure or multiclienting
     
    • Agree Agree x 6
  18. kiwiz
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    kiwiz Skelegon

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    There are certainly numerous avenues for earning, and multi-client farming stands out due to its flexibility, independence, and consistency, not to mention the widespread discussions about it and possibly blowing it out of proportion.

    I'm not entirely certain about the earnings from multi-mage farming, but players are giving figures ranging from 20-40 mil meso per hour. In comparison, my dual-client (Bishop + Shadower) farming earns me an average of about 15 mil meso per hour, excluding gachas. To increase the earnings, I do FM stuff, averaging an additional 5-25 mil meso per day. My typical active playtime ranges from 1 to 3 hours per day in total. It takes months to achieve something, but I feel my progression rate is still pretty decent without investing too much time each day.

    It's advisable to diversify farming routines to avoid burnout, incorporating a mix of bossing, events and regular farming. Personally, the only boss runs I do is Ravana. I prefer earning methods that can be done in short sessions throughout the day, given my limited playtime. Mob farming is mostly fixed earnings with some dependence on gacha pulls, while merching/scrolling relies heavily on knowledge, market trends, opportunities and luck, involving brief logins throughout the day to owls, shop and scroll.

    I also recommend players to slow down and appreciate different aspects the game has to offer. Take a month off from thinking about the end game or making perfect gears. Experience the game, try things out; it isn’t as bad as people think. Progression is not linear. Things will start out slow—you might make 1-2 mil each hour—and slowly increase to 5-7 mil. As your character gets stronger, your knowledge grows wider, you will find ways to make over 10-20 mil per hour with relative ease.

    Set achievable goals and plan out your strategies to accomplish them. The initial success generates momentum, making subsequent tasks seem more manageable, and that's the moment to set loftier goals.
     
    • Great Work Great Work x 3
  19. -ovv
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    -ovv Horntail

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    Of course casual play styles will pale in comparison to optimized farming strategies. Things are pretty balanced as far as individual progression goes.

    These type of threads always come up. Just because your current earning potential is low doesn't mean that it's all that exists. It might just mean you haven't explored enough and haven't figured out ways to improve.
     
    • Agree Agree x 3
  20. beegoratto
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    beegoratto Zakum

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    This is definitely a myth. Single client skeles leech generates very similar income to trio mage ulu1.
     
    • Informative Informative x 3

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