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Evaluating the coin efficiency of Mysterious Pouch 4 (Poverty Dragon)

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by TORONTOTOKYO, Feb 8, 2022.

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Should Mysterious Pouch 4 be buffed?

  1. Yay

    65 vote(s)
    91.5%
  2. Nay

    6 vote(s)
    8.5%
  1. TORONTOTOKYO
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    TORONTOTOKYO Windraider

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    Since the implementation of coins in the event, we have seen various strategies for coin-farming. Barring multi-pc strategies, I will like to put forth an evaluation of the Mysterious Pouch 4 and why I think there should be a slight buff of 5 coins.

    <Screenshot copied from event thread>
    upload_2022-2-8_17-33-11.png
    Lets compare Zak and HT with the assumption of average coin yields per pouch.
    An average 12man HT takes 1.2hrs to complete, with an average of 25 coins. This equates to 1.74 coins per hour.
    An average 6man HT takes 1.7hrs to complete, with an average of 25 coins. This equates to 2.45 coins per hour.
    Comparatively, an average 6man Zak takes 0.5hrs, with an average of 15 coins. This equates to 5 coins per hour.
    Stronger parties can attempt 4man Zak and this equates to 7.5 coins per hour.
    But of cos, comparisons of Zak and HT are problematic due to differences in value of boss loots.

    Lets compare PB and HT with the assumption of average coin yields per pouch.
    A 30 man PB takes ~2hrs, with an average of 180 coins. This equates to 3 coins per hour. Barring differences in boss loots, MW20, MW30, FS, etc.

    Comparing loot values between bosses are always problematic. But the trend of preferring Zak over HT for coin farming has been present in the community. Pls refer to owlrepo for prices of Gen20, Gen30 and MW20.

    Thank you for coming to my Ted talk.
    #makethedragongreatagain
     
    • Agree Agree x 11
  2. kalash
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    kalash Headless Horseman

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    Wait, PB is supposed to drop pouches? #BeingUnluckyIsNotABug
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
    • Friendly Friendly x 1
  3. akashsky
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    akashsky Horntail

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    The analysis for pink bean is incorrect, because it assumes that for every 1 pouch you get from horntail / zak, you get 2 pouches from pink bean. But pink bean can drop 0, 1, or 2 pouches. Probably best to just exclude it since we don't know the probability of of each scenario for bean.
     
  4. -ovv
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    -ovv Horntail

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    Personally I've found collecting meaningful data around personal progress through bossing coins to be quite difficult. You could try to track pouch drop rate for each attempted boss, but the added RNG of opening the pouch creates variance, and each run doesn't get split between runners consistently all the time either (different number of runners, sometimes you win rolls, sometimes you lose rolls).

    I think coin generation rates could use a bit of tweaking here and there, and this could come in either a pouch drop drop rate tweak or a coin value tweak. I wouldn't even mind just increasing the range in which pouches could drop - Pouch 3 dropping 10-25, Pouch 4 dropping 20-40, Pouch 5 80-110 etc.
     
  5. yurain
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    yurain Windraider

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    HT pouch definitly needs a buff to either the coins, or the rate the pouch drops. HT is just much much more effort compare to a zak run, but the coins doesn't say anything about it.

    If you are really want to farm coin at zak, you can run 3man or even 2man by slapping additional attackers onto the zak body. It is literally the easiest boss to multi client in the same.
    And you can have a really good coin/hr rate at zak.
     
    • Agree Agree x 2
  6. OP
    OP
    TORONTOTOKYO
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    TORONTOTOKYO Windraider

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    noted on this. sadly, i dont have the data to compare the drop rates for each boss. I can only assume COMMON has the same rate throughout.
     
  7. Holp
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    Holp Master Chronos Retired Staff

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    For what it's worth.. started recording drops recently. :sleep:
    [​IMG]
     
    • Like Like x 1
  8. kalash
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    kalash Headless Horseman

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    Woah you’ve been really lucky in zak and pb (and ht I guess haha)
     
  9. -ovv
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    -ovv Horntail

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    I have a similar spreadsheet that tracks my bossing attempts day-by-day (will post when I get home in a few hours). The main drawback is it doesn't take into consideration the variance of the larger expeditions (Zak and Horntail) and how they can different in composition sizes (Zak trio, Zak 6 man, HT 6 man, HT 10-12 man), so the data set gets skewed sometimes.

    Edit:
    My spreadsheet:
    upload_2022-2-9_12-6-45.png
     
  10. OP
    OP
    TORONTOTOKYO
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    TORONTOTOKYO Windraider

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    As it stands, we have strong support for MP4 to be buffed! Vote results are 45-3!
     
    • Informative Informative x 2
  11. OP
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    TORONTOTOKYO
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    TORONTOTOKYO Windraider

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  12. yurain
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    yurain Windraider

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    Looking for rate to be buffed? Must be your first day here son.
     
    • Useful Useful x 1
  13. Estrahl
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    Estrahl Mr. Anchor

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    You know, just because you vote for something doesn't mean it actually happens.

    Otherwise you could get a min vote required from just about anywhere to pass whatever you wanted.
     
  14. OP
    OP
    TORONTOTOKYO
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    TORONTOTOKYO Windraider

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    Yet another problem arose. Severe lack of bishops for Horntail at the 12man level and 6man level.
    I have no problem filling up slots on NLs but a severe problem recruiting bishops for ht.
    For 6man, it's near impossible to find a heavily washed 7k+ hp bishop.

    Reasons being that:
    1) It is common consensus that bishops are useless even up to 200.
    2) One is better off playing an attacker.
    3) Selling skele leech/mage leech/multi-mage provides way more profits.
    4) Bishop in HT is a stressful job.
     
  15. fartsy
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    fartsy Zakum

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    a 7k hp bishop, especially one that 1 hits the wyverns, is probably too far along the investment curve for 6 man ht
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  16. OP
    OP
    TORONTOTOKYO
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    TORONTOTOKYO Windraider

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    when the investment curve for a pb bsp is lower than that of a 6man ht?
    #logic??
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  17. akashsky
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    akashsky Horntail

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    Gotta go back to the 2018/2019 HT meta where you had low HP bishops for 6man runs.
     
  18. OP
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    TORONTOTOKYO
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    TORONTOTOKYO Windraider

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    what was the meta then that enabled low hp bishops for 6man runs?
     
  19. akashsky
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    akashsky Horntail

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    1. Extreme scarcity of washed bishops (no multivote meant people usually only washed their main character)

    2. Different HT mechanics (no triple seduces, no double dp, defense up didn't cut your damage in half, wyverns did not get spammed, mass seduce not spammed) meant that even if your bishop died, the run could probably still finish.

    3. Dex bucc and HH mule made runs a lot easier.

    In the current era, you could kill this head before the other two so that dispel is less punishing to your bishop.
     
  20. OP
    OP
    TORONTOTOKYO
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    TORONTOTOKYO Windraider

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    ic. thanks for the history! but looks like the scarcity is still present. at least, profits for HT was way higher in 2018/2019.
     

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