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Guaranteed Prestigious Coin Pouch for Bossing

Discussion in 'Suggestions' started by Mageor, Oct 4, 2022.

  1. Mageor
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    Mageor Mr. Anchor

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    From all the multi-mage vs bossing discussion, I believe that most people are focusing on the wrong currency. As most MapleLegends players transition to an end-game state, the players become more reliant on prestigious coins (aka White Scroll/Chaos Scrolls) and less on meso. A lot of evidence points toward this:
    • The rising prices of White Scrolls and Chaos Scrolls
    • The hoarding of prestigious coins
    • Using prestigious coins as currency to buy/sell items
    From my understanding of the whole mages/multi-mages vs bossing discussion, I believe that the biggest problem is that the two currently share the same currency.

    Mages/multi-mages farm:
    • Meso (in the form of pure meso/etc/equips/scrolls)
    • Gachapon tickets
    • Leech service (another form of meso)
    While bossing sells:
    • Services (helmets/pendants)
    • Perfect or near-perfect equips
    • High-value drops (MW20/Gen30/MW30/Facestomper)
    • Coins
    When comparing the two, profits from mage farming is more consistent and flexible than bossing.
    Mage farming:
    Pro:
    • Consistent income (always profitable)
    • Flexible (able to stop at any time)
    • Ablility to farm a lot of Gachapon tickets and nx cash
    • Ability to leech
    Con:
    • Very monotonous
    • Require set up (require x amount of tma to 1 hit/creating multiple mages)
    Bossing:
    Pro:
    • If very lucky, can yield a very handsome profit over mage farming
    • Running with other people are fun
    • Chance to obtain prestigious coins to save for White Scrolls and Chaos Scrolls
    • Main method for most range classes to obtain experience
    Con:
    • Range of income can be unpredictable (lose profit vs gain profit)
    • Average income lower than mage farming
    • DC/Deaths are unforgiving
    I would like to propose a new system where bossing is made more consistent and dealing with the feast or famine problem by guaranteeing prestigious coins pouch drops to reduce the gap between mage farming and bossing.

    The idea is simple, if a group were to defeat a major boss such as Zakum or Horntail, the boss would 100% drop a pouch 3 or pouch 4 as a reward. This would reward the players who cleared the run guarantee profits as well as a chance to make extra profits through services and drops.

    Additional notes:
    - Due to this new changes, adjustment to the number of prestigious coins per boss can be made.
     
    • Like Like x 13
    • Disagree Disagree x 5
  2. bienfu
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    bienfu Pac Pinky

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    How does a pouch 1 get split between 4 or 5 or 6 players? It's just a mesos conversion at that point?

    Maybe bosses can few extra drop coins in addition to pouches.
     
    • Disagree Disagree x 1
  3. Soblet
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    Soblet Zakum

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    There's not alot of bosses that drop pouch 1 that are normally run by 4 or more players right?
     
    • Like Like x 1
  4. FatSloth
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    FatSloth Windraider Retired Staff

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    Like anything else with a comp shortage in this game, you roll for it and deal with that L sometimes.
     
  5. yurain
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    yurain Windraider

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    TDLR. Buff coins drop rate.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
    • Informative Informative x 1
  6. TORONTOTOKYO
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    TORONTOTOKYO Windraider

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    I don't like the idea of 100% coin drop but would prefer coin drop rates to be buffed say 10~20% across the board.
     
    • Agree Agree x 6
  7. shck
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    shck Timer Retired Staff

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    I think 100% pouch/coin drop rate would set a price floor for items like Pap Crack, Sunburst, EoF & white essence, which might end up messing with early-mid game player progression.
    Also, I don't think it makes bossing more profitable. Guaranteed coins will cause a major increase in the supply of coins, and excessive supply leads to said currency having lower value. That is, of course, dependent on how much of those coins make it onto the market at any given time.
    I'm no expert in economics but I don't think this is the solution to closing the gap between farming and bossing.
     
    • Agree Agree x 2
    • Like Like x 1
  8. OP
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    Mageor
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    Mageor Mr. Anchor

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    Does more supply lead to lower value? A simple example is the summer/anniversary event. Everyone was pulling pouches from the raffle, supply went from 6 pages of prestigious coin in owls to almost 20 pages, but I barely see a dip in the value.

    Even on owlrepo (albeit the data might not be 100% reflective of the market), shows that increase in supply ≠ decrease in price. (See Figure 1)


    Figure 1. Prestigious Coin Price and Count Over Time

    The whole idea of guaranteed coins is to help with the progression of obtaining White Scrolls and Chaos Scroll.

    Here's some data I've been collecting on the side for half a year: (See Figure 2)


    Figure 2. Collective Data for Jiaoceng drop rate over 6 months

    From this chart, you can see that I've ran Jiaoceng 523 times over this last 6 months (I try to run 4 times a day). In total it has a 46.27% drop rate and yielded 241 pouches or 482 prestigious coins (sounds about right with the current system). Each run takes about 10 minutes, so in total I spent around 5230 minutes or lets round it down to 87 hours. So the hourly yield for this boss is 5.54 coins/hour. Split among two attackers its 2.27 coins/hour.

    The question we need to ask ourselves is how many hours an attacker need to invest in bossing to save up for a single White Scroll/Chaos Scroll. Currently, It will take 44 hours. I'm simply asking to reduce the time to 22 hours, which still pales in terms of mage farming's 30~40m per hour (10 coins/hour or 10 hour per WS/CS).
     
    • Informative Informative x 10
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    • Agree Agree x 1
  9. shck
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    shck Timer Retired Staff

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    I feel like event statistics are an unfair comparison to the proposed change, which would be something more permanent.
    When making an analysis based on event period vs non-event period, we have to account for variable change which in this case, I would say is human behavior.
    Are players still following their usual non-event daily routine ontop of event raffles and how big of a part do raffles actually play in the overall supply of coins?
    If pouch drop rates are now 100% how does player behavior change? I assume we will be seeing a spike in the amount of boss runs happening on a daily basis.
    You'd also have to factor in the demand for coins which is highly volatile.

    I shall not dispute the values of your JC run statistics, but generally there might be some data integrity-esque issues if you look at the amount of coins generated from each boss, should pouch be 100% drop rate.
    Then it comes down to what bosses do you run everyday, because if we use a single boss run as comparison, I could do 2 runs of 30min trio Zak and get 8-10 coins per hour split among 3people.
     
  10. TORONTOTOKYO
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    TORONTOTOKYO Windraider

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    hence the drop rate shouldnt be 100%, a small across the board buff would be nice.
     
  11. OP
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    Mageor Mr. Anchor

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    You're overestimating the amount of bosses people can run in a single day. Between actually running, setting up party. Running two zak per day is the limit, even if you do get 8~10 coins per hour. Lets say you 6 man HT as well, that's another 8 coins per 2run or 3 hours. Compared to being able to just farm mages for 4 hours a day, bossing has its limitations.

    We're literally comparing 18 coins over 4 hours through bossing vs 120~160m (36~48 coins) over 4 hour for mages.

    Also not sure what's wrong with getting 10 coins per 2 zakum runs. It still takes 10 days to actually farm up a 100 coins. Note that here I use 10 days instead of 10 hours because in reality that's how long it'll take.

    Also please note, that this doesn't even account for the time it takes to gather the prequest for each bosses. (White Essence, Eye of fire, Dragon Elixir, Sunburst)

    Maybe I should ask you a question, how many coins per hour is acceptable for you?
     
  12. TORONTOTOKYO
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    TORONTOTOKYO Windraider

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    and player behaviours will always change to the most optimised way of farming coins. If the coin rate from multimaging is still superior to that of bossing (which usually includes wait time, JQs, etc), multimagers will still opt for farming.

    The question then begets if on the gap between farming and bossing whether it is acceptable?

    I doubt so. The event has showed that increased supply doesn't lead to lower value. Coins are still the best way for tax evasion and people who are aiming to buy big ticket items would push for its appreciation. This would primarily come in the form of buying off coins, similar to how white scrolls pre-patch. As long as big ticket items are there, coins will always be bought for its future value. What better currency to invest than coins? scrolls?

    On the point of that, everyone. here who is reading the forum, probably has a degree of stickiness to coin prices. I am quite sure 80% of you will swoop at say coins listed at 3m. With this price stickiness, how would the value ever lower? Ans: Mass ban/wipe? Dwindling player numbers?
     
  13. fael
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    fael Nightshadow

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    the exp should be taken into this math. and if jc/pap/rav start to 100% pouch drop, ppl will just switch from multimage to multiattacker and i truly believe this is worse than multimage.
    idk...
     
    • Agree Agree x 2
  14. OP
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    Mageor
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    Mageor Mr. Anchor

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    A few questions I like to bring up:

    Q1: What type of players determines the price of prestigious coins?
    A: Any player with enough mesos to buy it at 3m/3.3m/3.5m/4m per coin.

    Q2: Who generates the most mesos?
    A: Mages.

    Although I don't have any real data to support that people who farm with mages are dictating the price of coins, I can confidently say they're a huge factor to why coin prices are so high.
     
  15. shck
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    shck Timer Retired Staff

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    Perhaps I am. But I could argue you're underestimating the number of characters people are willing to participate in boss runs on.
    To put things into perspective, if I had 4 attackers doing the most optimal boss runs for coins for an hour each. Isn't that the same thing as farming on 4 mages for 4hrs?

    There's nothing wrong with getting whatever amount of coins on whichever boss, Zakum was brought up to justify why using a single boss(JC) statistics to prove a point is unfair.

    To put multimage farming vs bossing for profits on a level playing field was never going work. We could go on an on about the topic and never be able to find a common ground. Unfortunately, prequests, preparation time and daily limits are a part of bossing that can never be taken away from it, which also happen to be the determining factors behind why bossing doesn't measure up to farming.

    I don't have an answer for that. Subjectively it would be as little as possible, but objectively it shouldn't be something you can realistically achieve by doing 2 bosses over 1-2hrs a day.

    I've made my point on why I think an event induced oversupply of coins shouldn't be used as stats for analysis in the earlier reply, it is a temporary implementation. And yes, by logical behavioural change, you're right to say that players will gravitate towards the best method of farming, be it multimage or bossing.

    Hoarding of coins will always be an issue, it is by design that this has become the norm and I could be very wrong and coin prices continue to skyrocket even if we had a guaranteed source of coins.
    My take on solving the constant rise in prices is that WS and CS needs to stop being tagged to the same form of currency, what comes with it should be a decrease in coin prices.
     
  16. OP
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    Mageor Mr. Anchor

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    Yes, this is a very likely scenario, but you can't always balance around people who run multiple attackers, just as you can't balance mages solely based on multi-mage.

    Another thing I need to point out that in bosses like Zakum and Horntail, you need more than just people to fill up the team. To trio Zakum, you need to travel, you need gear, you need multiple buffs, you need holy symbol, you need to spend money on potions. Yes, some things can be muled, but how many bishops/SE/SI are out there? Maybe you don't need any of the aforementioned buffs. This is still a meso drain. You still might die/disconnect, therefore losing out on the profits. There's a lot of hidden variables bossing has in comparison to multi-mage that makes it a lot harder/annoying.

    Also hard to believe that mage farming (either single or multi-mage) is acceptable when they can do what you mentioned in a single day in a single map. If one is allowed, the other should at least be viable.
     
  17. lv1crook
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    lv1crook Capt. Latanica

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    MCP1 should probably not get such a huge buff to droprate. Those should probably be ~50% droprate at the most. For higher level bosses, I think it is not a bad idea. Even the degenerate players I know that boss a lot still take forever to get 100 pcoins. This will make it decently less time consuming to chaos your own gear or eventually WS as a bosser
     
    • Like Like x 1
  18. TORONTOTOKYO
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    TORONTOTOKYO Windraider

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    The thing is that there wont be oversupply of coins without an event injecting coins.
    Meaning coins untradeable? If coin prices decrease, players (be it multimager, 5-6, solo bosser) will swoop them up and the decrease becomes temporary.
    The only way this could be met is, 1) an arbitrary price point of coins or 2) constant oversupply to change the price perception of players. (This could be a tricky one and requires an understanding of supply vs purchasing ability).
     
  19. yurain
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    yurain Windraider

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    There has never been an over supply of coins/ws/cs since like that covid?
    The price are literally only going one way, and it is just upwards.

    I do wish there can ever be a over supply to actually suppress the price though.

    Multi attacker is so much better than multi mage.
    You need some what proper gear for each attacker to be viable, which helps to cycle the economy for mid range gears, when are you building stuffs 4 NLs.
    If you are gear sharing a set of perf wep, then it means that you aren't multi-attacker-ing, in the same definitation of multimage.

    Also casual bossing 3 hrs a day, can probably get you 3 coins/day at least.
    Which is about 1000coins (10ws) a year. And even more with some event and bossing splits thrown in.
    If you want to perf a 5 slot weapon, at the above rate you just need 5 years to do it.
    The server already lasted 7 years, so what is just 5 more years right.
    OnionF2
     
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  20. fael
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    fael Nightshadow

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    yeah this is your point of view...
    but i would rather multimage (and i dont even like it - i rather sell 1 hit skele leech) than being forced to do all bosses everyday on my chars.
     

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