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Guaranteed Prestigious Coin Pouch for Bossing

Discussion in 'Suggestions' started by Mageor, Oct 4, 2022.

  1. OP
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    Mageor Mr. Anchor

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    LOL, no one says you're forced to do all bosses everyday on your chars just as no one says you have to leech/farm 5+ hours a day on a mage. If 1 hour of bossing = 1 hour of mage farming, you get to choose which method you go about farming coins. Here we're simply talking about closing the gap between bossing and farming. There's nowhere saying that bossing wages > mage farming wages. I don't really understand your concerns. Even if this were to be implemented, it doesn't stop one from selling leech or mult-mage for equal or better profit.

    Personally, I think you're taking things to the extreme. Just as you can say you can do all bosses on all your char every single day, you can say the same thing about mages. Nothing is stopping a mage from farming 24/7. In reality, not everyone bosses nor farm on a mage that much. What's wrong with a single client player asking to make 10 coins per day from 2 runs of trio zakum?
     
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  2. fael
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    fael Nightshadow

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    you arent considering the exp from bosses. if you put exp into this, ull probably see it will be much better than multimage. at least thats what i think, specially if you consider solo/optimized squads.
    edit: oh and i didnt meant ill be forced. i think i chose the wrong words. i meant that ppl complain about multimage because they feel like they need to do. i just meant we would feel the same problem with multiattacking!
     
  3. OP
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    Mageor Mr. Anchor

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    I agree, exp can be a tricky thing, which is why I left it out. But in my opinion, gaining exp on mage is just as good since once you reach lvl 180, they're PB viable. So exp on mages instead of exp on attackers aren't a total waste, I would like to view it as a long term investment.
     
  4. Karn
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    Karn Mixed Golem

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    Most multimagers do sweep on their attackers which makes them get exp and tons of NX so I don't think the exp gained by bossing is better than this.
     
  5. -ovv
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    -ovv Horntail

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    Personally, I think there are better ways of creating floor value of bossing content over guaranteed drop rates. I think something like a weekly boss run quest where you are required to clear 10 randomized bosses for a pouch 3 seems like it would be fun way to incentivize running content you otherwise wouldn't - with people you otherwise wouldn't. This way, if your run ends up being dry, you still would have gained from clearing that portion of the quest.

    The problem with guaranteed pouch drop rates is that it would make bossing content pretty damn overpowered for how little time and effort you need to put into it - the primary issue being time. It basically takes away any sort of thrill of good luck by making it purely transactional.
     
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  6. OP
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    Mageor Mr. Anchor

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    Maybe I can’t see what you mean by overpowered for the amount of time and effort one put into bossing. Can you expand on this?
     
  7. -ovv
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    -ovv Horntail

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    You can solo things like NT, pap, rav, etc. on multiple characters across different channels simultaneously. If it becomes purely transactional, what stops someone from holding all 8 channels of Zakum, soloing on their multiple level 200s, over 3-4 hours? You can already do this, but because the payout is not guaranteed, people look for more stable/steady options instead.
     
  8. OP
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    Mageor Mr. Anchor

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    This is a good point, except I don't see much wrong with it as this is exactly the same as map ownership. Popular leech spots (GS2, 5-6F, petri, skele, ulu2, etc) have been full at one point, sometimes for hours and map channels have been inherited on from one friend to another. The Popular grinding spot, 7F (only one I can think of) also have this problem. Area bosses (Anego, but also any bosses) faces this exact issue when people keep track of timers and kill the bosses as soon as they spawn. I even believe that some people would hold the maps for a significant amount of time (>30 minutes) while only killing one mob per 5 minutes)

    Opportunities are first come first serve.

    I believe that the reason why the number of channels have been reduced to 8 is this fix the issue of having a low player count and empty channels lying around unused.
     
  9. shck
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    shck Timer Retired Staff

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    This is exactly the problem. Events are the only time where an excess amount of coins are being injected into the server, but that amount hasn't been large enough to cause a dent in the market value for coins. Which is why it shouldn't be use as a comparison.
    Experimenting with higher pouch drop rates is a given, but even if it works, it would just a temporary solution until the demand of prestigious coins exceeds the supply again.
    Making pouch drops guaranteed on the other hand, while in theory seems like it should work really well, comes with it's underlying issues which are being pointed out all over this thread.

    I think you might be tying the definition of multimage a little too close to what a multi-attacker set up should be.
    For multimage to work, it is essential for multiple clients to be actively attacking concurrently, while trying to boss on >1 attacker on the other hand, can come in many different forms.
    Realistically, gear sharing between the same class attackers would be the most efficient way to go about doing it, and because there is a limit on the number of entries for daily bosses, it actually makes sense to do this; player A multimages for 8hrs on 4 clients, but player B does his regular daily boss runs for 2hrs ea on 4 characters. But what's stopping this from happening right now, is that people are unwilling to take this calculated risk.
    If pouch drop rate was increased to 100% though, that's gonna be an entirely different scenario. The worst that could happen would be multimagers not be leaving their natural habitat, but instead a different group of gear-sharing multi-attacker players now generate coins daily at a much higher rate on top of the already existing mesos being generated from multimagers.

    I agree, the general consensus among the slightly casual playerbase is that they feel obligated to multimage or they'll get left behind and that is simply false. It is and will always be a matter of choice. By game design you are not prevented from entering Pink Bean if you don't have 50 white scrolls networth or have insufficient damage, those are requirements set by other players.
    People farm and make progress because they want to, not because they need to. Nothing is being forced.
    But this still doesn't change the fact that multimage & possibly multi-attacker would be unhealthy for the economy.

    Just because such things have been happening doesn't mean it should be condone. And to -ovv-ovv 's point, do we really want the game to get to a point where holding multiple channels of a midgame boss for 3-4hours is the norm?
     
  10. OP
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    Mageor Mr. Anchor

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    I understand all your concerns, but the whole point of this thread is to deal with the feast or famine side of bossing (I will add this to the OP), there’s always room for adjustment such as the amount of prestigious coins dropped per boss. We already confirm that cwk can drop single coins, I’m sure bosses like pap, rav, etc can drop a single coin if it were to deem necessary.

    There’s already risk associated with each boss such as dying or disconnecting, why keep additional risk such as getting no rewards for your effort and time? Risk should be proportional to the reward (same issue with dark knight’s seeking), and as we all know, this is not true at its current state.
     
  11. yurain
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    yurain Windraider

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    Maybe the papu/rav drop are sort of fine mostly, they do drop other equips as well. You barely use any resources (pots) when you are soloing it with your high level attackers.
    If you are a new player who can't solo it efficiently then suck to be you.

    It is most for the likes of HT and PB, which should drop 1-2 pouch instead of 0-1 and 0-2 respectively, to ensure a reward floor for some of the longer and main bossing contents.
    Also maybe some others that I missed out, since I don't play them because it is just bad rewards for my limited time....
     
  12. bienfu
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    bienfu Pac Pinky

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    3 hours of bossing - no pouches no profit

    -much fun
     
  13. -ovv
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    -ovv Horntail

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    What is expected value?
     
  14. bienfu
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    bienfu Pac Pinky

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    Perhaps something more than negative mesos
     
  15. BorutozDAD
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    BorutozDAD Red Snail

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    So the main problem I see with this is that just like there are people who will sweat and multi-mage. there will be people who will sweat super hard and duo zak to run like 3 or 4 times a day or run ht on multiple accounts. by making it a chance for dropping the pouch it at least makes it not guaranteed and thus not worth the time investment. I think that dropping the pouch 100% as a reward would only work if coins could not be used as currency, but unfortunately this will
    1: probably be super hard to do
    2: could be implemented but then coins would only be used to purchase cosmetics or something which would make it just another nx
     
  16. -ovv
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    -ovv Horntail

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    A guaranteed pouch drop from Zakum would shift its expected value from 6.5 coins/run to 15. That's a 230% increase.
     
  17. LuisJ
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    LuisJ King Slime

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    What if it is a guaranteed MP2, instead of a chance of getting MP3? Expected value would go down from 6.5 to 6, with the benefit of removing RNG.
     
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  18. -ovv
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    -ovv Horntail

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    I'm torn because while I do enjoy RNG, I can understand the pains of seemingly cursed luck. Trust me, I've been there. I think moving towards transactional gameplay is dangerous because that is the fundamental aspect of this game - MapleLegends is an RNG sim with pretty skins. I wrote up a longer post which I have since deleted after thinking a bit longer. Initially, my argument was that removing RNG entirely would kind of suck and make it too transactional. However, there already exists RNG in your chances from opening a pouch. MP2 dropping 4-8 would offer that bit of RNG factor to a run that guarantees drop rate. In the current format, the highs are very high and the lows are very low. You could lose twice - both on super low/below average pouch drop rate, and again with a low coin roll from opening pouch. This makes for a very large gap in gameplay experience between various players, which isn't healthy IMO.

    So, all said - I think that would be a fair trade-off. I'd personally see it as a nerf overall, but I can't be certain because I can't even be sure my 6.5 figure is correct considering variance. That number is susceptible to change a fair bit depending on a string of good/bad luck.
     
  19. TORONTOTOKYO
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    TORONTOTOKYO Windraider

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    In this case, is there a permanent solution?
     
  20. Estrahl
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    Estrahl Mr. Anchor

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    Just throwing the concept out there, but wouldn't a minimum rise in prices for things like Cracks of Time, Sunburst, etc be good for early/mid game progression? Suddenly these items are worth a lot more, and I don't feel like I'm strong enough to utilize them even though I can get one daily. Trickle daily sales and eventually I've got enough funds and levels to be able to nix one or two sales a week to attempt, and by the time I'm done with grinding I can then go ahead and sell my pieces again to others who want to run it multiple times in a day.
     
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