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Potions cost renewal

Discussion in 'Suggestions' started by Motto, Jun 4, 2021.

  1. Luu
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    Luu Selkie Jr.

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    LuuBluum
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    (admittedly I don't generally post beyond my journal since I'm relatively new here, but I've stared for hours at potion prices feeling irritation at the stupidity of their pricing)

    Fundamentally the existence of percentage-healing potions available in stores benefits washed characters over unwashed by the simple fact that more HP/MP that you have = more HP/MP that they heal. Every HP washed is a meso earned using these potions; there's no escaping this. The only way to balance these potions as a whole is to balance them relative towards a baseline HP/MP that they should heal such that they're comparable to the fixed-healing potions that also exist.

    Right now the greatest fixed-value healing potion for both stats heals 5000 (going off of NLC shop availability), costing 5600 and 10200, respectively. Given the value calculation done here, the percentage-based healing potions are balanced at 5000HP/10000MP; those with less of either stat are wasting money by using them, and those with more than either stat are wasting money using the fixed-value potions. All things considered, with these numbers it actually kinda puts these potions back in line with every other healing item in the game (other than sorcerer potions- please double the price, please).

    It's worth noting that the current prices for HP/MP percentage healing potions are actually calculated off of these numbers already. They just completely disregard the MP component of their healing; you pay for the HP and get the MP for free. The NLC-added MP potions, meanwhile, were simply balanced by making them identical to their HP equivalents. An equivalent balance to these potions, rather than increase their price, would be to simply remove their MP healing components. Not that people are using these things for their MP healing anyway. Maybe remove the MP healing component from these potions and add in potions with these new costs that do heal MP? Though still up the price of mana bulls in that scenario; their price is a joke otherwise.
     
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  2. -ovv
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    -ovv Horntail

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    Just reduce the effects of % potions on mages by 50%.
     
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  3. geospiza
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    geospiza Web Developer Staff Member Web Developer

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    geospiza
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    Just to nit on this particular point -- it's not necessarily true. I've been training at the Temple of Time, and the damage that I take roughly aligns with my MP costs for fury/crusher (a little less mp usage). It's been nice only having to have a single potion on HP auto-pot that suffices for my grinds.
     
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  4. Voxtagrams
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    Voxtagrams Headless Horseman

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    I want to know what a Hornster is..

    Screen Shot 2021-06-04 at 3.42.03 PM.png
    Anyways, I'd have to disagree with this. Gomenasai ToMotto
    OnionSorry
     
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  5. porl
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    porl Mixed Golem

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    Washing is optional
     
  6. Camazotz
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    Camazotz Chronos

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    Dude I can't even begin to tell you how much I hate this idea. I already lose money on the vast majority of my Horntail runs because I spend ~5m on potions. All this will do is shift the meta even further towards farming with Arch Mages (which I didn't think was possible).
     
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  7. OP
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    Motto
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    Motto Skelegon

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    tbf the increase of Hornster from 2.8k to 3k will not be so impactful.
    The increased cost of Mana Bull will, on other hand, increase the spamming meta leech/farming meta, in a slight way.

    In general a mage would be consuming close to 700~800 pots/hour (using Shiv journal numbers here for higher intensity maps) with a cost of 1.9m~2.2m/hour.
    With the surplus balancing of NLC % HP/MP costs we'd be looking at an increase of MP pots dependant to 4.2m~4.8m (219% increased cost when averaged).

    Elsewhere looking at close to 200~300 (in less intensity maps) with a cost of 556k~840k/hour.
    The increased price will bring this to 1.2m~1.8m/hour.


    If this number is relative to Hornsters alone it would be bumping up to 5.3m, but surely you're using a mix of other pots for MP as well (or most likely are using Roots/Ales to replenish MP + added bonus of HP)
     
  8. KurayamiLove
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    KurayamiLove Skelegon

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    Life is unfair if you play DK, more effort for less damage than any of the other warriors, and can't get buffed cos you can press the HB key. Is kinda funny cos Berserk is the skill of a class that would be classified as glass cannon but you got not that much power you are just a glass o.o.
    Still love DK tho you can presume of big peepee cos u are always at a lower HP than the rest.
     
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  9. RegalStar
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    RegalStar Nightshadow

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    People who are not so washed need to use ginger ales in HT to not be in magic buffed 1HKO range after an 1/1.
     
  10. Voxtagrams
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    Voxtagrams Headless Horseman

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  11. Luu
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    Luu Selkie Jr.

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    • Informative Informative x 1
  12. codiacs
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    codiacs Horny Mushroom

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    Please tell this to 8m afk zak OnionMuha
     
  13. ma3ohma3
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    ma3ohma3 Chronos

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    how did this thread even came about?
     
  14. akashsky
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    akashsky Horntail

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    jootajoota revived an old thread that was complaining about how expensive sushi (potion that heals 20% hp cost 3000 meso) was compared to ginseng root (potion that heals 40% cost 2100 meso). Then, instead of making sushi cheaper, our thread starter MottoMotto thought it would be a better idea to have everyone pay the same price that DK using sushi pay. That was discussed and eventually evolved into the current modified suggestion.
     
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  15. ma3ohma3
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    ma3ohma3 Chronos

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    just make sushi cheaper :D
     
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  16. Luu
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    Luu Selkie Jr.

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    If you want sushi to follow the current NLC potion ratio, then it should cost 1000 mesos.

    I personally prefer the idea of doing this, while also increasing the diversity of percentage-based healing potions (more HP-only ones, specifically) to fill the gap.
     
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  17. Edann
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    Edann Slimy Retired Staff

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    What... issue are you looking to solve here? Like what is the problem you are looking to benefit players by solving?
    I mean these comparisons in meso are correct but... what's the benefit of doing this? You do realize everyone uses % pots and not just leech sellers right? Even if you are just looking to nerf leech profitability, it sounds like such a long shot of a solution, while also making everyone suffer. This sounds very aimless...
     
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  18. Luu
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    Luu Selkie Jr.

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    I suppose it's the question of whether the significant imbalance of NLC pots relative to most other pots in the game is actually a problem or not.

    Maybe this says more about the pricing of every other pot in the game than it does the NLC pots?
     
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  19. Edann
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    Edann Slimy Retired Staff

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    I wouldn't agree they're imbalanced in the first place even. The generation rate of Elixir and Power Elixirs kinda made them fit both (in consensus) into a price range that fits nicely between NLC pots. But even if you disagree, I just don't see how NLC pots being more expensive solves literally anything. I don't see any chance you'd get people to... pay more for pelixirs (again - what does this even achieve lol) with how common of a drop they are.
     
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  20. OP
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    Motto
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    Motto Skelegon

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    Mispricing of the most used pots in game.

    As per akashskyakashsky post above
    I would say that, as per Sushi price it would be more reasonable to account the pricing of 100% HP/MP to be evaluated and fixed over NLC pots which are known to be problematic pots.

    But they are when you're looking at the fact that, everyone in the server is washing, non % based pots are just too expensive to be even treated equally.
    When was the last time you saw someone use Sunset Dews [​IMG]

    One thing that I would like to do, is subject this thread to look at other servers ways of fixing pricings as well, and temptively look at their reasoning :
    Unity banned NLC pots out-right because they are too broken, increasing a market for people buying Sunset Dews farmed from mobs (not npc bought)
    Royals early last year understood how broken NLC pots are in general and adopted a ~22k meso range for 100% HP/MP (their meso rate is higher iirc so the +7k from my proposal is reasonable for their part).

    The latter ones have done so because of their look at the market meso throughput and understanding that there was a lack of meso sinks.
    And this is one problem that we are facing here as well.

    To be fair thats the imbalance brought by washing in the first point which makes % pots more important than non-% based pots.
    And when you look at higher HP/MP non-% pots we're looking at stupid prices.

    The 15k meso range I put for 100% HP/MP would even be low, if we take into account that the vast majority of ML high lvl players have at least washed to reach 15k+ HP (or even higher average for sure).

    Here we would actually have to watch at what would be the cost of using BiS non-% pots in comparison to % based pots and decide an even higher meso range for 100% HP/MP... which would be even more outrageous.
     
    • Informative Informative x 4

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