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Not a Bug Taunt Debuff Not Increasing Drop Rate of Mobs

Discussion in 'Report Bugs' started by ChickenMan, Mar 28, 2019.

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  1. ChickenMan
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    ChickenMan Mushmom

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    Description of the bug: (optional screenshot/video): Hey guys. I was just using the debuff: Taunt on my Shadower while trying to farm for dragon scales in Leafre and realized that the skill doesn't give you an increased drop rate like it says it should in the skill description.
    What is supposed to happen?: Taunt is suppose to increase the drop rate of the mobs it's casted on.
    Where did you find and/or notice this bug?: In Leafre.
    A step-by-step guide to re-producing this bug (optional): Compare the time it takes to farm set number of drops while using Taunt as opposed to not using it. The diffrence is little to non-existant.
    Extra information (optional): For anyone's that interested, when I first tested this, the Valentines event was going on and my Taunt skill was at level 30(maximum). When Taunt is at level 30, the skill description stats that it supposed to increase the drop rate of the debuffed mob by 40%. I tested the time it took to farm 25 dragon scales(a rare drop that's given by the dragon mobs) from the Dark Wyverns using and not using Taunt. The time it took me to farm the scales while using Taunt took nearly 30 minutes longer than it took me to farm them while not using the debuff.
     
  2. akashsky
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    akashsky Horntail

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    hmm. I think that using dragon scales isn't the best example since they have a low drop rate, so RNG can really screw with you here.

    I suggest trying again using ETC as a measurement of drop rate. Most monsters drop their respective ETC at about a 50% rate. So, you can check to see if there is a noticeable difference in the etc drop rate when using taunt. This should help to see if the skill is actually increasing the drop rate or not.
     
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  3. OP
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    ChickenMan
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    ChickenMan Mushmom

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    I'll try again, but I don't know if what you use as measurement really matters that much. One of the reasons I leveled up my Taunt early was so I could get those more rarer drops faster. If Taunt doesn't increase the drop rate of all the drops then it should say so in the skill description.
     
  4. aaronis
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    aaronis Slimy

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    If an item has a 1 percent change to drop usually 40 percent more would only make it a 1.4 percent chance. With even rarer items the difference in droprate with taunt is lower. In my experience with using taunt as a shadower I’ve felt like using it purely for droprate is a waste and you’re better off walking to another mob or bstepping again. For example if you 2 hit a mob you have a choice to use 2bsteps or 2bsteps and taunt. If in the time it takes you to kill 2 mobs and taunt them, you have the time to kill 3 mobs instead which would be a better droprate than the first. Taunt is only worth it for the bonus exp or if you can one shot mobs with it and want to hunt low level monster cards since the animation is really long. Hopefully I made sense with my post and if the wording is bad I can try to fix it.
     
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  5. Fishy
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    Fishy Skelegon Retired Staff

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    Taunt doesnt magically make everything drop sadly :/ , its be to OP if this was the case tbh
     
  6. OP
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    I'm sorry, but I don't get what you're trying to say here. I tested the drop rate of Taunt to get 25 drops. If if kill 1000 mobs to farm a drop with a 1% drop rate, the mean would be 10 drops. I you also kill 1000 mobs with a 1.4% drop rate, the mean would then be 14 drops. Using Taunt for a 1.4% drop rate should be faster than not using it at 1% even with the time it takes to cast it. If it gives faster exp, than it should give faster drops as well.
     
    Last edited: Mar 28, 2019
  7. Fishy
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    Fishy Skelegon Retired Staff

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    but it doesnt magically make it that # either. its purely RNG. like i said, Taunt would be to op if it worked all the time
     
  8. Lionheart
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    Part of the trouble is that even if taunt does increase drop rate substantially, you waste time using it.

    Half of 140% is 70%.
     
  9. OP
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    I'm sorry, I'm a bit confused here. Can you rephrase this?
     
  10. OP
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    ChickenMan Mushmom

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    I'm sorry, I don't get what you mean by this. If you're wasting time using Taunt than it becomes a worthless skill all together. Like I said before, if the exp is faster while using it the drops should be as well.
     
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    KK, so I'm in the middle of testing the drop rate of Etc using and not using Taunt(I'm on the same map farming from the same mobs), but this time farming Wyvern toenails. After comparing the time it took me to farm 200 toenails, the time it took while using Taunt was a minute and 30 seconds slower than the time it took to farm without using it.
     
  12. OP
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    I'm sorry, I forgot to mention that Taunt increases exp and drop rate by the same percentage(or is supposed to anyways) in case that threw anyone off about what I was talking about.
     
  13. akashsky
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    Using "time to farm" isn't accurate to determine drop rates. This is because you could potentially "slack" during one of your sessions. A better way to estimate it would be to count the number of kills with taunt and see how many etcs drop, and do the same without taunt.

    Though, I think you might be right in that it isn't affecting drop rate, but there is also the possibility that you are killing monsters faster when u dont use taunt, thus making it faster to farm by not using it.

    Basically, measure drop rate based on number kills, not time you spend farming.

    By the way, you can accurately determine the number of kills you are getting by looking at your exp bar from before and after. Subtract the difference than divide by however much exp each monster gives you.
     
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  14. OP
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    I'm still in the middle of testing this like I said before. When I tested the drop rate of Taunt the first time while farming dragon scales, I ran the test 3 times(stoping the timer when I was in chat or needed to take a break) both while using and without using it. The times I've gotten still showed that the drop rate didn't improve in any of those tests.
     
    Last edited: Mar 29, 2019
  15. Precel
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    I would think time dependent tests you've done so far are all invalid, because like others said, taunt is slower at killing and also time between kills can affect the result.

    If you want accurate test data, count by drops per kills like akashskyakashsky suggested. Also, for it to be decent data, you will need LARGE number of kills since RNG can be unreliable in small sample.

    Now, I hope one of the devs can verify that it isn't a bug, but to me it sounds like you had bad RNG with a bad skill, instead of it being a bug.
     
  16. akashsky
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    He won't need a large number of kills if he does the test based on the ETC dropping from individual monsters. The ETC drop rate is known to be around 50%, so if you were to kill 100 monsters, you can expect to get somewhere between 40-60 ETC with a very large certainty. If taunt truly does work, then it would change the drop rate of ETC items from around 0.5 to around 0.642 (not sure if my math is correct here). So, out of 100 kills he would get somewhere between 54 to 74 ETC items.

    Basically, since the drop rate for ETCs is very high, you don't need a large sample size to estimate it.
     
  17. Lionheart
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    What I'm saying is that normally people just kill monsters by spamming their attack skills. When you use taunt, you are using up time hitting them with that skill before using your real skills to kill them. This means that if you normally kill a monster in one hit, using taunt first means you are essentially killing it in two hits. If you kill a monster in three hits, using taunt first means you are killing it in four hits. This means you are taking more time to kill the monsters.

    The fact that you are using a time metric and actually getting worse results using taunt makes sense. How is your exp/hr with and without taunt looking?
     
  18. OP
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    I'm sorry, I don't get what you mean by this. Using Taunt to grind on mobs increases the exp despite the time it takes to cast it. Since Taunt is suppose to increase the drop rate at the same percentage as exp, it is expected that the drops be increased as well. I don't get what you mean by "the time between kills can affect the result" since I ran the same route in all of my tests. Counting the drops per kill won't make that much of a diffrence since that is also a dependent variable that increases with time so the results should stay relativly the same whatever or not Taunt is use. I killed a pretty hefty amount of mobs in the course of those tests(not to mention I ran it 3 times with seemingly the same results), so that should rule out any RNG that isn't dependable. I highly doubt I had that bad of luck with RNG in all those hours I spent farming dragon scales and if Taunt is a inherently bad skill to use for drop rate, I don't know why developers bothered to confuse the players by saying it would increase it in the first place.
     
    Last edited: Mar 29, 2019
  19. OP
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    Actually, larger numbers might required in a test like this since a 40% diffrence in an assumed 50% rate with 100 mobs(with the adverage being between 40-60 Etc) should result in a adverage amount being 70 Etc which is only 20 etc higher than the adverage rate with a 0% diffrence. Problem with running this test is no one knows forsure the exact drop rate for Etc, so there might be a problem with knowing the adverage number of drops should be for both of those respectivly.
     
    Last edited: Mar 29, 2019
  20. aaronis
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    The reason why taunt is efficient in grinding is because the most optimal place to grind at is Shaolin 7f which has really tanky mobs. When you 7 hit them and taunt right before the last hit there will be a huge exp difference and the cast time compared to how long it takes to kill them isn't that much different. When you 2 hit a mob casting taunt when you could instead bstep again it won't be better. The droprate increases, but the actual time to get items might not decrease. When an item has a 0.1 percent dropate increasing it to 0.14 won't be noticable at all, while killing 99 mobs instead of 66 might be a bigger difference.
     
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