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The reason why our ToS needs to change

Discussion in 'Suggestions' started by fael, Jul 6, 2023.

  1. -ovv
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    -ovv Horntail

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    4 to 5 years of playing and idk who you are :V
     
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  2. askalade
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    askalade Mano

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    Boefje1337 - lvl 126 sin
    IemandAnders - lvl 131 bishop
    Have some mules as well

    Again I'm not a hardcore player, I don't participate in any boss runs or hp wash. Been in some guilds in the beginning like DANK or Dutch guilds but they don't exist anymore and last couple years I've just been guildless.
    I'm not some hardcore superstar player that's recognized and known by all 500+ players. Just a casual with an active friendlist enjoying the game. I don't see how it is relevant how well known I am to be allowed to have an opinion or state my experiences on the server.
    According to you only if you are well known your opinion counts? I start to see why you would want less strict TOS now.
     
  3. Soblet
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    Soblet Zakum

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    It's more the fact that you haven't experienced this servers end game bossing culture which is why you don't understand the 19 pages with concerns. Which is fine but you're not in the position to dismiss them.
     
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  4. askalade
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    askalade Mano

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    I mean toxic culture is toxic culture. Even if i participated in boss runs that wouldn't suddenly change me into being a toxic asshole and unrespectful. I've played ranked league of legends for years (highest rank master) and I know all about toxicity, but I've never been toxic myself and/or banned. In the end it's the toxic players that make the toxic culture. And being in a toxic environment doesn't justify you being toxic as well. I doubt that literally all the players running boss runs are toxic and advocating for looser TOS. But hey I could be wrong, just my 2 cents.
     
  5. -ovv
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    -ovv Horntail

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    It's not difficult to stay out of drama when your interactions in game don't revolve around any conflict or opinionated decision making. While I agree that it's fairly easy to stay out of conflict, adding your niche perspective using longevity as claims to your credibility when nobody even knows who you are is a meme approach.

    That said, I'm not dismissing your perspective, but rather, I'm encouraging you to see that 19 pages are a pretty good indicator that there are players that actually care about stuff like this.
     
    Last edited: Jul 19, 2023
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  6. brunandes
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    brunandes Windraider

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    Why would you? You live in the forum.
     
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  7. -ovv
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    -ovv Horntail

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    Benefits of working an office job :V
     
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  8. beegoratto
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    beegoratto Zakum

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    There’s more to pushing for a differently worded ToS than just wanting to be toxic, believe it or not.
     
  9. Pelinsu
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    Pelinsu Timer

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    So, please correct me if i understood this correctly.
    End game has toxicity, end game players do accept this, wants to change how the ToS is worded because... toxic behaviour can't be evaded end game?

    ?
     
  10. beegoratto
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    beegoratto Zakum

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    As I've tried to explain multiple times during this thread, it's not always about toxicity.
     
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  11. -ovv
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    -ovv Horntail

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    It's not even about toxic behavior. It's about boundless possibilities that Staff can interpret to be toxic behavior -- especially with limited information -- which, from a player's perspective, can be seen as an overreach of power.

    Players want transparency which require extensive reasoning/follow-up (court system), which puts strain on Staff as public rulings can put into question legitimacy of staff decisions/ruling.

    Staff want simplicity which require a more detailed ToS (pre-made policy system), which makes things easier for Staff but make it more precarious for the existing player base.
     
    Last edited: Jul 19, 2023
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  12. Edann
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    Edann Slimy Retired Staff

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    ML forums is gods gift to mankind
     
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  13. Shmoo
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    Shmoo Horny Mushroom

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    You’re 100% correct and the only counter argument I’ve seen to your point is silly stuff about how late game bossing means harassment is just bound to happen. Of course in reality there’s level 200s without a single ban to their name.

    For the people getting bans though, they probably see the staff as extremely trigger happy in regards to harassment reports. That’s why there’s a disconnect between your experiences playing the game and some of these posts. It’s also why they assume that since you haven’t gotten any bans it means you must play extremely isolated or something strange like that
     
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  14. Nise
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    Nise Supervisor Staff Member Supervisor Game Moderator

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    Now y'all are making me wonder what the stats are :think: things like:
    • What % of "end game" players have received a ban (at all)
    • What % of "end game" players have received a harassment ban
    Though what defines end game? 155+ 175+ 185+ 200s only?
     
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  15. LiquidOoze
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    LiquidOoze Mixed Golem

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    You can mark me for first point and add SelquinSelquin onto both list :(

    Don't forget Maijin, ImSinXD, Johnn, hotguy6pack, Arbo, tons more. Can probably mention aaronisaaronis also, highly doubt he has a clean slate.
     
    Last edited: Jul 20, 2023
  16. Nise
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    Nise Supervisor Staff Member Supervisor Game Moderator

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    Yes I'll put it a "LiquidOoze %" kek
     
  17. beegoratto
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    beegoratto Zakum

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    I’m actually in awe at how much strawmanning there is in this thread
     
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  18. Ferluci
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    Ferluci Zakum Retired Staff

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    From now on endgame will be defined when someone killed over 5 million Goby’s.
     
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  19. -ovv
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    -ovv Horntail

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    Why strawman when you can derail? Shadowers don't deserve this type of harassment.
     
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  20. Edann
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    Edann Slimy Retired Staff

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    I too like to paraphrase text I make up
     
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