The reason why our ToS needs to change

cause some people just see this as an 'us vs them' thing. Self-righteous players on this side, toxic players on the other side, they battle in the middle, very epic.
if you have disagreements with ToS it's because you are a toxic idiot and not because there's legitimate concerns regarding autonomy, privacy, context, etc

 

Yeah honestly it felt so unproductive. Instead of making arguments of why the ToS was good/bad or why the proposed changes were good/bad, just strawman arguments of "if you dont like the tos you probably just want to be toxic". The main reason this thread went so long imo is there's too many people making personal attacks and trying to judge others rather than trying to be constructive.

 

The problem is the entirety of section 3. Abuse within the Community should be treated as civil cases as they always involve two parties. However, the punishments for these match that of criminal cases.

I find it ridiculous that someone can get booted off this server for saying something unintentionally stupid in a public discord meant for shooting the shit, let alone making a joke in a private discord amongst friends -- and this could have happened years ago with strikes still counting toward your last. All it takes is for someone to be offended enough to report it - and the extent to which one is offended cannot ever be properly challenged or disputed by Staff. I can easily scrounge through the official MapleLegends discord and isolate exchanges between active players in order to submit a report based on the pretense that I am offended, even if not directly involved. The current version of ToS still allows for that, and Staff are held under the gun to follow through and are powerless to object to my offendedness.

IMO, this is more destructive to the community than it is protective.

 

i have a better suggestion. REMOVE PB. contentious boss that leads to drama and bans.

 

i mean. its true right. since when do u see drama and bans becos of other bosses, e.g. zak?

 

It's all about creative react now

 

I love the maplelegends forums.

 

As one who is considered as one of end-game players (even though I'm quite doubtful for that), with my all heart, I truly wish to say, not every end game players accept toxicity and agree on It's bad necessary. or at least, I do think so. Toxicity can be excluded, and It should be. Recent ToS change is one of great attempts for that, and I do believe this would be nice step to going forward. I don't think this is perfect and 100% right, but this has potential for better future. I believe so.

I'm curioused why this 'cursed thread' (I love this mention Mirrors LOOOOL) still luring ppls.

 

conflict is inherent in human nature and exists in both war and peace. if there are forceful changes (see funny emote) it just changes to some different form (creative). let's not pretend it doesn't exist. i'm sure even at some more "inclusive" circles, it's taxing to keep up some illusion of a clean, perfect self.

 

Now imagine if the Staff position was treated less like a strict, professional obligation and more as a volunteer moderator of a small community? I feel like that'd be a lot less stressful.

It's a given that Staff aren't perfect, and there should be no expectations for Staff to be perfect.

 

I think there shouldn't be much of a problem if rules are direct without space for interpretation - as long as it's enforced evenly. It'd be hard to accuse staff of bias if a reason for enforcement is literally there, and will cap any discontent. It's not rare for players to view Staff as a club; percieved abuses of power just make players vote with their feet.

 

I think this is wishful thinking in terms of policymaking.

 

totally is, but we strive toward an ideal

 

could be a utopia tho.

 

This is an entirely different debate, but I think one thing that helps build trust with the community is a face they recognize and respect. Recently there's been several Staff members that cannot be identified (Abagnale, Noire), and while they may have perfectly legitimate reasons for that, it's much easier to give the blind benefit of the doubt when a Staff member is well-liked, trusted, and seen as competent already by a large portion of the community (Nightz and Glaceon immediately come to mind). Not saying that anonymous staff shouldn't be allowed, just wanted to chime in that people are more willing to trust a face they know and already trust, and more willing to nitpick and complain about someone who hides.

 

The problem I have with a ToS that gets changed due to a difficult decision is that it comes across as a means to wash over pre-existing flaws in the ToS.

"Hey this player did ___ but there were no rules written about it, so we banned them and then wrote a new rule about it."

The above fails to admit that the previous ToS had flaws, and that the player, even though they may have been abiding by the flawed ToS, was ultimately punished for it. I believe this is why Fartsy wants a set ToS (presumably, this is what Staff is already attempting) and wants punishment to be exacted only on them. In a sense, we're asking for similar things but approaching it from different angles - punishment should never be handed out if rules have not existed prior.

That said, the severity of crime should always be the main focus for these types of judgment which was why I suggested the route that gives Staff ultimate authority, but that would require trust from players and training for Staff.

Going back to the point of perfectionism, I think it's important to note that Staff, whether under professional obligation or as volunteer, should be expected to operate with openness and transparency about mistakes made, whatever it may be. I personally find operating behind a ToS and constantly tweaking it in an attempt to create some type of immutable system is the exact opposite of this.

When the community itself is so small, I'd expect a conversation to be had rather than a series of pre-written rules Staff can follow to hand out judgment.