CWKPQ Balance Notes

You guys are all looking at this wrong. Who cares about the MoN,Balckfist Cloak, or a bunch of boring scrolls when we are getting SPECTRUM GOGGLES!!!
R>CWKPQ

 

crushed skull should be in the bonus stage in my opinion

 

Post was updated and says that crushed skulls are in the bonus stage!

 

woke up with such amazing news :3

personally i think this patch was just made for me *plays with hair*

 

...and then the cost of the chaos scroll itself? They aren't free you know. LOL

I agree that if the cape has the same attack range as PAC, then also taking away all its slots and making it untradeable is pointless. I understand that if the cape drops frequently, that pretty much means you have to nerf it to the extremes, as you would flood the market. But if if you nerf the cape that much, you pretty much make it worthless, seeing players doing the PQ would likely already have a cape that provides watk by this point. And with it being untradable and 0 slots, there's pretty much nothing you can do with it. +80 extra HP does not balance out the change at all.

So what I would do is give it the same attack range and upgrade slots of a PAC, leave it as tradable, but just make it much more rare.

 

I was referring to equips, not temporary buffs.

 

I think the nerf to MoN is not justified. People see 10 att pendant and think its op but its really not. It has no slots, no def/magic def, 16+ less stat than htp, no avoid etc. Most classes will have to adjust their stats to use their weapons if they want to use MoN. Ex: my nl currently has 150 dex exactly atm which means if I wanted to wear MoN I would have to get ~16 more dex in order to wear my claw while wearing the pendant. Also warriors will lose accuracy from the less dex. If MoN gets nerfed it basically becomes a deputy star with no slots which is not a worthy reward from an endgame boss imo.

 

Thank gosh cwkpq and party expedition is coming out! The Mon nerf is way overkill considering it was literally not game breaking.

 

I'm sure the team has done the math. I for one know that 1 attack on my NL is roughly the same as 6 LUK, so 10 ATT MoN would be like a 66 LUK and 6 DEX which is still more than 23 DEX + 23 LUK. Not all classes benefit the same obviously, but it's not as bad as you think. Also CWKPQ is definitely not end-game content so why should it be treated like it is?

 

By Luscious’s arguement, let’s also reduce the price of non-end game pots like sunrise dews and reindeer milk since NLC pots are the new endgame pots since (v.0.40 and v.0.42) when nlc and 4th job came out respectively. Zakum was end game and then horntail came out.

Also it is not a nostalgic experience when new content is nerfed.

Why not make 2 difficulty levels for cwkpq? If they want the OG MoN, put it in the more difficult pq to make it a new endgame content for best pendent in the game and have the nerfed MoN available in the regular difficulty pq. Are we going to get the pirate boss in cwkpq (from jms)?

Aside from all this, just because cwkpq comes out with one new over powered weapon, does not kill horntail’s endgame. Horntail still offers great experience as well as skillbooks you would not get from non-end game content.

TL;DR

Keep the MoN unchanged (GMS stats) as it is with potentially 2 difficulties of cwkpq to maybe make cwkpq the new endgame content for pendents.

Jms pirate boss included in cwkpq?

 

Why not nerf NT weapons too while you're at it? ^^

 

It's pretty simple to calculate how much a stat or watk will increase a physical attacker's damage:

New watk / old watk

new stats / old stats

So if we assume HTP is the default, +7 average stats, +15 egged, +22 total on average. It's even better for certain classes like sins and bowmasters because the increase to a secondary stat means they get to increase their primary stat even more. So an average egged HTP is like +44 to your main stat.

So let's say you have 800 luk with all your equips except a pendant slot. An average egged HTP would increase your damage by about 844/800 = 5.5%.

Now let's look at a MoN. On average it increases watk by 10. Let's say we get a really nice one with 11 watk.

Perfect green dragon sleeve: 55 watk. perfect scrolling is +35 watk. perfect bwgs is +21 watk. Let's also throw on a 10 watk pac and 10 watk sock. Finally, let's also throw on the +31 watk stars, and a warrior elixir. We have 174 watk.

How would a MoN increase your damage? Simple: 185/174 = +6.3%.

Oh but wait, your stats have also dropped some. The average MoN has +5 stats, and that's like a -17 from the HTP, so consider your luk dropping 34. That ratio is 810/844 = 96.0%. Factor this together with the MoN increase (1.063 x .960), and your overall damage increase is only +2.0%.

So with perfect gears, your watk is so high that the stat decrease from no HTP can actually be a detriment. Of course, not everyone has perfect gears... but they do have apples, which would easily surpass this estimate watk. The more base watk a character has, the less noticeable the MoN becomes. And conversely, the more base stat a character has, the less noticeable the HTP becomes. But I think it's pretty easy to see that even the unnerfed MoN is inferior, unless you don't have good watk gears, and you aren't using apples.

 

I'm with Luscious on this, I think 10 att is too OP (completely overshadows HTP). CWKPQ isn't even close to HT in terms of level req (110+ vs 155+) so it's definitely not more end-gamey than HT, and shouldn't offer rewards that are just straight up better.

Just because Neckson did a shit job balancing the game back then, doesn't mean we can't tweak some changes to be more fair.

 

3.8k mesos to buy ginger ales that can heal upto 22.5k hp and mp is way too powerful compared to lets say melting cheese that costs 4.5k mesos and only heals a max of 4k hp. Prophet, if your concerned about that then you should be concerned about the over usefullness of nlc pots too.

Oh look, warriors are the slowest class in maple, we should also nerf all jobs to be as slow as warriors.

As a reminder that the term ‘late-game’ associated with horntail does not simply mean just a horntail pendent (htp) but as a whole and the whole horntail late-game experience is not really changed. Many people’s end game choice of gloves are lv 10 work gloves or level 20 markers. The premise of these gloves should also be questioned as their level requirements are just too low for late-game.

Also HT requirements are lv 120+ not lv 155+ So the two requirements are quite similiar. Just because an item is a higher level, does not mean it has to be better than a lower level item. Take ski skis for example.

 

Never said NLC potions weren't OP for higher levels (they are) but what are we gonna do, remove something that's in the game for years? (Same thing goes for bwgs). Again, Neckson did a shit job balancing the game, but we can still do what we can to make it more fair.

Back to the topic at hand, I'm pretty sure no one does HT runs at lvl 120. 155 is the minimum level I see thrown around a lot (HT is 160). Also, cwkpq has 4 bosses with a total of 919m hp, in comparison, HT has a total of over 2.7b hp, so it's fair to say HT is significantly more late-game than cwkpq. Doesn't make sense for a lower level quest to give significantly better rewards (ie: if hpq gave you a better helm than a zhelm, it'd be silly).

 

Also, no one does cwkpq at lv 110. Your level requirement statements are just plain silly.

If you want to play a game that's catered to fairness, I would suggest playing a different game. The misconception that horntail is 'late-game' is already gone. This game is no longer one of them. The idea of a nerfed MoN has basically no purpose in here and thus why release cwkpq in the first place? if you argue for bonus stage, then why are you, Prophet, not considering other uses for 'late-game' horntail and other rewards for horntail. A tier 10 monster ring is obtainable at lv 30. Why is a lv 10 monster ring giving more stats than the lv 50 ellin saviour ring? There is no longer precedence with your 'higher level items must be more advantageous than lower level items' idealogy.

There are some things that should be nerfed and balanced but a MoN is not one of those items. CWKPQ would be dead on arrival (DOA) should the MoN be releases nerfed by your definition of 'late-game' horntail, then Neo Tokyo and Ninja Castle would be irrelevant as it doesn't belong in this game being 'later than late game content'

If the item isn't broken, unfairly advantageous, or game-breaking which is the case, then why change it? Are you saying lv 200's can't benefit from new content? How about the user TaxDog with his eggless htp? It also doesn't negatively impact the game in any way so why nerf it. The MoN is just a nice alternative to an htp because you can get a MoN more safely than a HTP.

This discussion is about if the Mark of Naricain (MoN), specifically be nerfed to be more in line with current content in the game.
The answer is NO because the game is a oldschool nostalgia maple game. This game will continue to update with new content (hopefully) and any nerfing of new content will just hinder the evolution of MapleLegends.

 

Here's a video from 2009 (pre big bang): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mMMBDsmkEZ0&t=306s
Notice how the sniper is lvl 100. The minimum level to get into the pq is actually 90. Not saying everyone will do it at that level, but it's definitely possible at around 110ish.

Not sure what you're rambling on about; all I'm saying is 10att is too strong imo (and many agree). I'm worried about power creep, I definitely don't want MoN to completely overshadow HTP (which it will, with it's original stats).

 

Pink gaia cape and Pink Adventure Cape will be still always better still cuz it can be chaosed. and i think nerfing the cape to (2-4 weapon attack) instead is pretty fine for those cant affort a chaos scroll yet (Saying this in the fact the cape doesnt have slots) if you decide to put slots on it then the nerf to (1-3) is fine for my guess.

And... the nerf of the Pendant its good tho... it wont break the economy of the game, imagine.. if the books of ht are going lower everyday... the pendants will make it worst to go lower if there is a pendant with better characteristics than the HTP.

 

I think you're missing the bigger picture. Guilds often sell Zakum runs for Z-Helms, and the same can be true for people who want a HT Pendant. A MoN can be sold by guilds just the same beginning at level 90. The MoN, by necessity, needs to be less powerful than a HT Pendant - otherwise guilds will never run HT except for mages. (Just an aside, in GMS the MoN was used by all classes except mages because only mages benefited from a HT Pendant more than a MoN). While your point on the Monster Ring is true, it would be excessively difficult for a level 10 to obtain a Tier 10 Ring without excessive help. So the effort here balances out the discrepancy between a Monster Ring at level 10 to Ellin Ring's Level 50. CWKPQ vs. HT - the HT Pendant wins out in effort and therefore should have the better stats. CWKPQ may not be something higher levels will want to do (unless there are bonuses worth getting, like maybe Skill Books you can't get anywhere else?) but if the experience is good and they have a guild that wants to do it, or they want to make a business out of getting level 90s their first MoN, then I think there's a place for it here.

Oh, and nostalgia is never a good argument. That's just an appeal to tradition and just because it always was doesn't mean it was always good.