Auf Haven suggestions from a frequent runner

source: https://maplestory.Neckson.net/news/80182/updated-feb-8-v-239-neo-tokyo-patch-notes

 

yes please

 

Just putting this out there but maybe we could also reduce the frequency of DP for mages and underwashed players as AUF DPs every so frequently.

I feel we can utilize some mechanics we've learnt across the NT content such as Core stg 1's Laptop Mechanic, upon normal attacking It'll grant a debuff on Auf that lower's it's Dispel chance by a certain % for X amount of seconds. Now, this said laptop mechanic could be placed on the Top Right of the map, a trade off to lower your party's chance of getting DPed at the expense of an individual's (preferably Ranged/Mount/FJ/Tele) DPM loss travelling back and forth. For now, top right because it gives ranged more responsibilities as well as when clones spawn, members who're usually at that spot cleaving or members post seduce could activate it.

Also, would be interesting to allow ninja storm (NL skill) to be applicable on Clones only, lessening cleaves pressure and add to more variability in gameplays. Note that it was suggested to work on Clones only as compared to Monster Magnet working on both Auf and Clones.

 

Another small change that will do a lot to increase viability for weaker classes is to increase the maximum expedition size from 6 to 12 to enable 2 party runs. (If this is too much, even increasing the max size by 1 would help to enable auf service)

A group of level 160 characters with class diversity can come together and clear a 12 man horntail run, but for auf this isn't an option because you can only run with 6 members. Being able to run with 2 parties would enable weaker classes to run, and would also make it easier for squads to sell auf helmet service.

Of course this would have some downsides such as:
1) opening up more slots for mules to make lower man runs easier
2) more mules means more coins
3) enable auf service and somewhat ruin the charm of being forced to work for your own helmet

 

From a technical POV increasing player count seems unlikely. I’d imagine there’s probably a lot of shenanigans Pasta would need to do on the backend that likely aren’t worth the headache. Time limit also is pretty forgiving as is, I think.

The biggest restrictions to the fight I think are just how punishing it is to low-wash characters, and even mages still despite dispel orb being gone. The high frequency of Sed and Stun is pretty manageable for any character that washed enough, but I’d imagine for low wash characters there’s only so much you can do before it eventually just comes down to RNG. I’d imagine mages would also probably appreciate a longer dispel cooldown, and making DR physical only instead of global.

 

I actually like that Auf is still partially unsolved. People failing periodically just means the content isn't fully figured out yet. Instead of resolving it by asking for more and more changes, I feel like it's the community's responsibility to come up with new strategies, new comps, etc.

 

I think it's "solved" for groups that are strong enough and can afford to bring a busted composition like 2 bucc 3 paladin 1 bish or something dumb like that. The bigger issues with the fight are with weaker, and especially less-washed groups, which I think is something that will never be solved. Just like in PB you see the meta shifting towards not bringing sub 12k characters at all, I imagine Auf will slowly shift over time to just excluding people under a certain HP threshold.

 

i think Lin's Pov is more about inclusion than strategies, to clear easy is just bring a bishop or hero, shad, pally and bucc goes brrr

 

I'd be wary of saying never. Things always seem stagnant and figured out until something new gets discovered that unlocks more resources to the overall strategy. That's why meta seems to always be changing even for games that have been seemingly 'figured out' for decades.

An optimal comp/strat has been found already, sure, but that doesn't mean there isn't more that can be found elsewhere.
How many DKs are running Auf currently?

 

but agree about you that is a nice challenge

 

Wasn't the constant dispel the main reason auf was not viable for 'semi-washed' players? Now that the dispel is on a timer, and predictable, do the semi-washed players still struggle even with hyperbody?

I think orb change was probably good enough, and that the meta needs to evolve a bit more to figure out how to better include the non meta classes.

 

There's also the flying mechanic that's supposedly being worked on which should change how certain classes play.

 

I'd imagine we can draw a lot of parallels here to Pink Bean. One of the interesting phenomena you see in PB is how polarizing the squads are. Strong runners are drawn to other strong runners. What happens over time is that strong runners who don't need HB will group up with others in a similar position to optimize their runs, leaving fewer and fewer runners on the remaining less-optimized squads to carry. This further increases both the DPM burden and the requirement for HB on those squads as they have to increasingly recruit more and more underwashed and weaker runners, leading to burnout.

While a DK is capable of pulling its weight on these harder bosses like PB and Auf, it's no secret that the average runner is not capable of consistently putting up numbers comparable to other classes without being an incredible burden on Ressurects. DKs are more likely to die than other classes and less likely to put up strong DPM, on average.

Any PB, and by extension Auf squad, that is carrying underwashed runners and relying on DKs is inherently at a disadvantage to squads that do not require a DK, both in terms of DPM and in terms of clear rate, due to running out of Rez, and therefore HB, leading to further deaths. While I think the new changes are great for opening this option, and I am by no means saying the run is unclearable under these conditions, this disadvantage cannot be overstated, as strong carry runners, especially those for key classes like Paladins, Buccs, and Bishops, are more likely to gravitate towards stronger squads that aren't reliant on crutches like HB.

That's a lot of words to say that there's only so much optimizing you can do in terms of composition and strategy; there's more that can be done sure, and underwashed players have the option of clearing yes, but these runs will always be at a disadvantage and I'd imagine the run fails that you attribute to an unsolved meta are rather symptoms of balance changes requiring higher washing goals and these fails will continue in perpetuity.

 

There's just a natural hurdle to new players running auf. There are ways to play around much of the shenanigans including the stun+sed, but new players are still learning the fight. Just like the now experienced players had to learn the fight, and just like players had to learn to pb. I do really think new players (bishops and others both) could actually benefit from learning in a double bish auf squad, just as many bishops first learned to ht in a lower risk 12 man setup with multiple bishops to cover their mistakes. Give it time and players will learn how to survive, and then focus on squeezing out damage.

Ultimately though, I do believe we as players take the level of boss for granted. Is auf actually 18x content? Should it be?

 

If the main topic is inclusion based on content design and limitations, your comparison to the shifting meta of optimized PB is somewhat off topic. You're speaking in regards to groups that are seeking maximized profits by lowering their player numbers in addition to mule usage, but it doesn't change the fact that PB is still designed to be clearable with a group of underwashed players using in-game resources such as Hyper Body.

If the concern is that some weaker/inexperienced groups are failing, my counter response to that is that there is only room for more improvement. As you said, it's not that these groups are incapable of clearing on paper. They just might not be willing to make the adjustments necessary to clear more consistently, whether it's through more practice, adjusting strategies, or just using more attack pots.

These concerns for Auf inclusivity, to me, are more analogous to a group of inexperienced level 160 players complaining that they cannot consistently clear HT 6-mans. Sure, they can adjust by adding more people to their expedition (re: suggest to increase Auf limit to 7), but they can also help themselves by leveling up, becoming more familiar with the content strategies, and becoming better players all around.

Some comps just won't work - like a group of 6 NLs, and I don't think every comp should be required to work. But with recent changes, I think the pool of classes has grown significantly, and I think it's a little to early to be calling for more changes.

 

That's fair, actually, but I still believe that long-term we will continue to see regular run fails for weaker groups that aren't chock full of end-game paladins and buccs. A combination of undergeared, underwashed, and less-skilled players will always plague this fight and there will always be regular fails, unless the "optimization" these groups go for it just bringing in carries from the hyperstrong groups.

I absolutely agree though that more changes are not needed at this point.