Buff LUK mages

Masterg75 · Dec 12, 2018

Annolis said: ↑

As long as LUK mages and LUKless mages have comparable power and allow for different play styles, I'm content with the status quo. If there is some kind of preference for LUKless because it gives a massive advantage, then I could agree with Daydreamer. With that said...

When we talk about nostalgia - which has always been a weak argument for or against anything - we keep hearkening back to the days when Neckson took over and started turning MapleStory into a money-making machine. Wizet is the original creator and I believe their intent for the game should trump whatever machinations Neckson tried cooking up (unless their ideas were genuinely a good addition). When I look at Wizet's original creation I keep asking myself questions like, "Why are there level 50+ helmets in this game when Zakum Helmets are a level 50 equip?" In this thread, though, I ask myself...Why are there mage equips above level 20 if everyone is goes LUKless? My three mages are all LUK mages, and I get some odd looks from people sometimes. The game lists mage gear in the shops and a new player would logically see they would need to put AP into their secondary stat in order to use higher level gear. Only a player with some experience might see a loophole in the game and dismiss their secondary stat and stack INT and use common gear. If the LUKless path is better than the obvious one, then new players will naturally feel deceived and betrayed by what the game is telling all players. So it is of paramount importance that each path is of equivalent standing. I'm going to admit that I don't really know what Isaac has presented because, despite being a math teacher, I never examined the numbers too closely to care - I just want to play the game without having to think...I get off work and I just want to veg - but I'm going to trust his conclusions. It sounds like Isaac has presented a case that both paths have equivalent power at the end, but widely different game play on their paths - AND THIS IS A GOOD...no...GREAT THING!!!

The only way I could see this getting better is if the LUKless mage can unlock a particular skill that no other mage could get unless they went LUKless (like...if they start putting stats into LUK after getting the skill, the skill disappears or is impotent due to a -LUK in the equation). Meanwhile, if the Elemental Wands and Staves all have a LUK requirement, then only LUK mages can use them for greater damage. Now I'm not sure what the skill for LUKless mages could be, but it would have to be worth sacrificing DPS. This would lead us to not just three types of mages, but six! I think this would be a better way to grow job types rather than introducing the "Hero" classes that began to take away from the game. (The other idea I've had along this line would be the types of weapons used by Warriors to make distinctively different classes if a Paladin wielded a sword versus a BW, and a Hero carrying a sword versus an axe, or a Dark Knight carrying a Pole Arm versus a Spear). I know what I'm suggesting here isn't something that could be done overnight - this would require a lot of forethought and testing to ensure fair game play and a hell of a lot of coding. Nevertheless, I think growing the game in this fashion is more of a Wizet idea rather than a Neckson (Zakum Helmet) idea. So as long as there is balance, I'm in favor of having both paths.

Why I think Zakum Helmets are bad!

First off, I wouldn't want to remove Zakum Helmets, but I would want them to be made into Rings rather than Helmets. The reason is because the Zakum Helmet is clearly an incentive of Neckson's to get people to buy cosmetic helmets. The level 50 requirement is low enough that casual players could wear them, powerful enough that everyone would want one, and ugly and annoying enough that people would want to get, at the every least, a transparent hat. I keep asking myself, "Why are there level 100-120 equips for each class, including a helmet, if not a single person would ever be stupid enough to wear it instead of a Zakum Helmet? One thing I did like that Neckson did after Big Bang was to give stat bonuses for wearing a complete set of gear - probably because WoW did it and Neckson was like, "We gotta be like WoW because...REASONS!!!" which only served to destroy the game further. Nevertheless, the level 100-120 helmets in this game are disastrously pathetic! I think this was done for a reason - especially when Scissors of Karma came out (which I'm VERY pleased Kimberly has no intention of putting these hellish creations into the game). The major bosses giving a godly equip is an awesome thing to have in the game, but equips like the HT Necklace are a type of equip you can't get in the game by grinding on mobs - they can only be attained by completing quests and killing bosses. So why do that with a helmet and make all other helmets completely obsolete? Any time you make something in the game obsolete, you've made a wrong move! Given this is a private server, the owner of the server can choose to correct the mistakes of Neckson if she wishes. This is only one of the mistakes Neckson made - the others, just to name a couple, include HP/MP Scrolls being too weak and the W.DEF and M.DEF stats are meaningless.

Click to expand...

I disagree, the zakum helms look badass

Selquin · Dec 12, 2018

Annolis said: ↑

It sounds like Isaac has presented a case that both paths have equivalent power at the end, but widely different game play on their paths - AND THIS IS A GOOD...no...GREAT THING!!!
Click to expand...

I would caution line of thought that there are two equivalent paths. Luk mages are strictly inferior to their lukless counterparts, and not by an insignificant margin. If we take Issac's estimate that luk mages are ~16% weaker at level 16x, that is still quite a significant difference. It would take quite a bit of funds(or levels) to make up for that difference, and luk mages will struggle quite a bit more to get those important 1hit KOs on certain important mobs.While it is true that when you get to the really high levels luk vs lukless wont matter too much (as you'll have the 1 hit KOs anyways), going the path of a luk mage still puts you at a significant disadvantage.
Rather than there being 2 equivalent paths, its more like there is an optimal and sub-optimal path, with the latter giving a significant but not completely crippling disadvantage.

fartsy · Dec 12, 2018

I used a point of reference for stats required to 1 hit petris at a set level, accounting for almost the same gear and subtracted any differences between a LUKless and a LUK mage.

Assumptions:
LUK mages can afford the same gear as LUKless.
LUK mages try to minimise their LUK
MW10
Elemental Staves were lv168 and required 168 LUK - was wrong lol but too lazy to change it since it wouldn't make much of a difference.

That said, LUK mages should lose out at levels 35, 40, 43, 64, 70, and 130 where LUKless mages make up for any difference in weapon and LUK mages approach LUKless in all other levels. A LUKless mage at 200 should have 1500 magic (not including echo). 130 less from weapon seems minimal at that point.

I encourage OP to wash out his LUK if he wants damage but it's really up to him to decide.

Daydreamer · Dec 13, 2018

isaactsai said: ↑

I used a point of reference for stats required to 1 hit petris at a set level, accounting for almost the same gear and subtracted any differences between a LUKless and a LUK mage.

Assumptions:
LUK mages can afford the same gear as LUKless.
LUK mages try to minimise their LUK
MW10
Elemental Staves were lv168 and required 168 LUK - was wrong lol but too lazy to change it since it wouldn't make much of a difference.

That said, LUK mages should lose out at levels 35, 40, 43, 64, 70, and 130 where LUKless mages make up for any difference in weapon and LUK mages approach LUKless in all other levels. A LUKless mage at 200 should have 1500 magic (not including echo). 130 less from weapon seems minimal at that point.

I encourage OP to wash out his LUK if he wants damage but it's really up to him to decide.
Click to expand...

I'm playing a LUKless mage, I have 5 base LUK and 40 LUK total from equips, which is enough to equip some nice mage robes, gloves, and shoes.

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