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Feedback regarding Pink Bean Balance changes and some suggestions

Discussion in 'Suggestions' started by akashsky, Jan 1, 2021.

  1. akashsky
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    akashsky Horntail

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    Below I'll post my comments on each change.
    • Ariel's hitbox has been modified so that melee classes can hit Ariel from the top platform

    This was an amazing change to the expedition which greatly improves viability of heros / drk knight (Paladin is still disadvantaged because ariel resists all elements, which means paladin has to attack without an elemental charge).

    I heard from some buccaneer's / shadowers that they cannot reach Ariel with assassinate or barrage. My suggestion is that ariel's hitbox should be further extended so that bucc and shad can also hit it from the top platform.

    • Ariel's aggro range modified
      • This will make Ariel cast spells a bit more frequently, which should add to the difficulty of Stage 5 of Pink Bean

    This was perhaps the worst balance change to pink bean overall. Nightlords are already the best class for the entire fight, and making ariel spam stun throughout only widens this disparity. Furthermore, because of the positioning requirements at the start of the stage (staying far away from munin), there really is not any room to dodge the stun attack. This means that the only viable counter play to ariel is to have high avoid, so this change makes the strongest class in pink bean (nightlords) even stronger compared to every other class.

    My suggestion is to put some kind of counter play to dodge the stuns, whether that is ducking / jumping to dodge the attack entirely. Moving left or right to dodge the stuns is not initially viable due to positioning requirements on stage 5.

    One easy way to implement this would be to shorten Munin's aggro range on the right side so that range attackers can attack Munin while underneath the steps on the right side. Then, when a stun comes, an attacker can duck underneath the steps to avoid the stun, much like what people currently do when pink bean uses its musical note attack that can seduce.

    • Munin (right bird) aggro range shifted right
      • There were instances where being on the FAR LEFT side (where Hugin is) would aggro Munin more consistently than being directly next to it on the LEFT
      • Munin should aggro closer to the right side (around Rex)
      • Munin should no longer aggro when crossing Solomon (left wiseman)
        • This should be enough space for melees to hit Hugin (left bird) if desired, without triggering Munin (right bird)

    Again this was a good change that improved the viability of melee attackers. However, it still potentially alienates shadower / bucc from using assassinate / barrage. If shadowers / bucc cannot hit hugin statue without triggering munin on the other side with assassinate / barrage, I think that the aggro range for munin should be shortened on the left side. This needs to be tested more, however.

    • Hugin (left bird) aggro range shifted left
      • Similarly, there were instances where being on the FAR RIGHT side (where Munin is) would aggro Hugin more consistently than being directly next to it on the LEFT
      • Hugin should aggro closer to the left side (around Solomon)
      • Hugin should no longer aggro when crossing Rex (right wiseman)
      • This should be enough space for melees to hit the Munin (right bird) if desired, without triggering Hugin (left bird)

    This change is useless since a melee attacking munin is suicide because that would trigger seduce. It can either be kept or rolled back since its impact on Pink bean runs is minor at best.
     
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  2. Nise
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    Nise Supervisor Staff Member Supervisor Game Moderator

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    I'm not sure what you mean for this... seeing that melees (including buccs and shadowers) are able to hit the bird statue from the left side, WITHOUT triggering the right bird. It is possible, and I don't mean like a 1 pixel leeway, thats like borderline impossible. It's feasible for melees to attack the left bird without triggering the right bird.
     
  3. OP
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    akashsky
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    akashsky Horntail

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    I agree that warriors (paladin, drk, and hero) can attack without triggering right bird. However, I am not 100% sure if buccaneers can barrage, and shadowers can assassinate without triggering right bird. If this is the case, then there is no issue.
     
  4. iPippy
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    iPippy Nightshadow

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    From how it seemed on our first run after patch (that was horrendously bugged), the range of the bird *should* allow shad/bucc to reach the left bird without problem. We just have yet to see the need to test it. Personally, I just barrage Solomon and ds both statues, to have a transform ready for when we fight bird. The range shifting definitely means bucc wont do anything other than ds spam on the bird once right side finishes anyways (can no longer demo with them), so it's not a huge impact for me to not barr the bird while right is up.

    Similarly, there is little reason to be able to barrage ariel. Normally I'll be Barr on the left bird and ds onto bird and ariel or demo on bird. The only time I "lose" is if bird dr while untransformed, where I'll rebuff, and ds/orb ariel for a few seconds. As ariel usually tends to die first, I'm not out a good target.

    Tl;dr perhaps I'm just used to t-rex barrage arms
     

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