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Make Bishop Mains 'alright' in Pink Bean

Discussion in 'Suggestions' started by Vowels, Jan 15, 2022.

  1. akashsky
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    akashsky Horntail

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    Although we can agree that bishop mains are not "viable" because of how they can be muled, bishop mains (at least the ones who properly attack in pink bean body phase) contribute much more to the run post pink bean changes than before.

    Before changes:
    Bishops have terrible statue damage
    Bishops have terrible body damage
    Holy shield was a nice to have, but not required
    Have extra utility to clear mini beans (though not optimal, as the mini beans are weak to ice / fire, making it more efficient for archmages to clear)

    After changes:
    Bishops still have terrible statue damage
    Bishops have passable body damage
    Holy shield is a requirement on statue phase
    Unable to clear minibeans efficiently

    Ability to clear mini beans was a nice to have perk that was not required. Giving this back to bishops won't change anything with regards to how viable they are. If bishops can hit minibeans, squads that care about min maxing splits will still be muling as many as possible - as archmages are simply better at clearing. Why would I bring a bishop main to clear minibeans inefficiently when that can be done optimally by an archmage main with a bishop mule?

    To fix bishop main viability, there needs to be increased cost associated with muling a bishop, to promote people recruiting actual bishop mains. Currently this cost is missing out on on passable body dpm (~3m) - which pretty much every decent squad is able to pay.

    You could increase this cost by somehow buffing bishop statue dpm (now the mule runs lose out on body dpm, and statue dpm).

    You could also increase the cost by reducing the pink bean timer. Now, missing out on 3m body dpm is a much higher cost to pay for muling a bishop, as total party damage needs to be higher.

    You could also fix this by not allowing multiclient on pink bean. Bishops are an essential role for clearing pink bean because of the statue phase mechanics, and if not muled would be filled by actual players.
     
    • Agree Agree x 4
    • Like Like x 1
  2. Fishy
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    Fishy Skelegon Retired Staff

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    I would say phase1, statue was slower than in attacking at first. but it started attacking nonstop.
    we got to phase 2, and the attacks were consistant. bird also animated same pace/normal.
    mini beans were spawning normal too.

    here is video reference.
    https://www.twitch.tv/videos/1453632740
     
    • Like Like x 1
    • Informative Informative x 1
  3. Fishy
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    Fishy Skelegon Retired Staff

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    what if making other classes viable too?
    1) could remove holy immune from mini beans.
    2) remove weapon cancel from mini beans but increase the HP significantly so other classes have to attack them to help clear.
    3) add weapon def /magic def debuffs so bishops have to dispel them or else damage is reduced.
    if only bishop utility was used for more things.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  4. iPippy
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    iPippy Nightshadow

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    Technical limitations aside, enabling bean to sed while facing right does quite a bit to make bishop impactful. Bishop class itself is well equipped to avoid seduces with mobility and has damage reduction if body touch is required. If seduce became a frequent enough threat, it gives value to healing and shielding the team. It also doesn't encroach upon the desire to keep bean pinned right/facing right, as lower hp classes can't afford to be on right side, and stuns are undesirable in both safety and dpm. Of course this would also likely require the removal of heal outright killing zombified players (which has always been a questionable design decision altogether).

    The drawback? It's yet another shifter/avoid/NL buff.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  5. Kiaraaa
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    Kiaraaa Chronos

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    BUMP BUMP BUMP THIS :pinkbean:
     
  6. mjk
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    mjk Master Chronos

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    Gentle reminder that this thread is about bishops specifically not the overall balance of Pink Bean. :)
     
    • Friendly Friendly x 2
  7. Fishy
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    Fishy Skelegon Retired Staff

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    thanks for the reminder. was just thinking of overall i guess.
     
  8. OP
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    Vowels
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    Vowels Mr. Anchor

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    • Informative Informative x 1
    • Friendly Friendly x 1
  9. TORONTOTOKYO
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    TORONTOTOKYO Windraider

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  10. Stance88
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    Stance88 Dark Stone Golem

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    -_- The class kinda ruins the game and the economy, why should the class be treated even more special than it already is? So many people moan on this server buff this nerf that, Q.Q I need moar power baby. UUUUaaawwrgh im not satiiisfiiieeed with anyyyyythiing. Nope
     
    • Creative Creative x 1
  11. OP
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    Vowels
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    Vowels Mr. Anchor

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    In the context of PB multiclienting introduces balance issues for bishops and dark knights, these classes are essential but not really. Why would I recruit a bishop or DrK player if I can multiclient a mule that serves the same purposes? This isn't a hypothetical, I do it and other players and squads too. I think this is a legitimate concern for the players of these classes.

    I've been multiclienting my level 150 bishop mule for 26 weeks now:

    [​IMG] [​IMG]

    and I've been multiclienting my level 165 dark knight in other run for 26 weeks too:

    [​IMG] [​IMG]

    Pink Bean is level 180. I assume you think this situation isn't a balance problem? I only see it growing
     
  12. OP
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    Vowels
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    Vowels Mr. Anchor

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    whats your take after this no longer being true
     
    • Friendly Friendly x 1
  13. akashsky
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    akashsky Horntail

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    Only 1 hour pink bean timer can save our bishop / dk friends.
     
  14. -ovv
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    -ovv Horntail

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    We just need a mage nerf all around. They do everything well and nothing poorly.
     
    • Disagree Disagree x 1
  15. Estrahl
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    Estrahl Mr. Anchor

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    I think it's silly that PB resists everything. I could see phases where it resists one element and then another, but all of them? All at once? Big oof, what was neck and son thinking?
     

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