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Make Bishop Mains 'alright' in Pink Bean

Discussion in 'Suggestions' started by Vowels, Jan 15, 2022.

  1. Nightz
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    Nightz Supervisor Staff Member Supervisor Game Moderator

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    Just to give some numbers, this would means a Bishop would hit harder than an equally geared F/P or I/L mage albeit at a slightly slower speed.

    Average hit of Angel Ray would be
    0.49% higher than Paralyze
    12.09% higher than CL

    Of course cast speed plays a role in a fight but these are just some quick numbers.

    Let's not forget that paladins exist also
     
    • Agree Agree x 2
  2. OP
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    Vowels
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    Vowels Mr. Anchor

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    I'll go a bit off the rails here but elemental balance is awkward because of Paladin balance history, going through the MapleLegends Skill Changes and checking the Charge (Sword) buffs it's noticeable why this server will probably never get an appropiate balance of the elemental mechanics because any elemental advantage would get ultra capitalized by them which compromises mages possibilities as Paladin Charges set very hard boundaries.

    Bishop and Paladin
    [​IMG]

    By buffing it so much Staff made Holy Charge the 'neutral scenario charge', the balance consequence is that it's impossible to make holy weak content without making Paladin broken and that limitation weights on Bishop.

    I/L and Paladin
    [​IMG]

    Thunder Charge is tied to Chain Lightning and the 150% buff works as an important conditional when thinking about I/L single target balance.

    F/P and Paladin
    [​IMG]

    This one is whatever I guess. Even though Flame Charge was buffed to 175% it doesn’t compromise F/P severely because Paralyze is Poison and Poison is free of the elemental tyranny.

    The whole elemental mechanics merit another thread and even a rework in my opinion. Back to your suggestion yea it would make Paladin broken and I don't think what Bishops need is more bean dps. I'm more of the opinion that we can have our magic being relevant by keeping mini-beans and Pink Bean free of holy restrictions (resistance and immunity). And besides that we need a way to distinguish our supportive qualities from mules and maybe I'm mistaken in thinking that this is possible without any kind of multiclient restriction, but this is the problem our server have put us into by being fine with it.
     
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    • Informative Informative x 1
  3. Alyosha
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    Alyosha Skelegon Retired Staff

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    Change zombify to a 3k damage poison that can only be healed with dispel, or else shielded.

    Get rid of Holy Resistance on Mini-Beans, increase their HP further, and give them new skills to buff defense, m defense, and attack, including on Mr. Big Bean.

    Bishops deserve a lot more, but just those two ideas come to my head at this time. If anything, it's best to change in such a way that bishops are encouraged to be on the front lines rather than in a corner, and doing more for support than simply being a res-mule.
     
    • Agree Agree x 3
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  4. -ovv
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    -ovv Horntail

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    I thought about this approach as well - Zombify is such a weird debuff and restricts one of the main aspects of Bishop play in being the healing support. I like that it reduces your potion efficacy by 50% because that's a pretty unique debuff, but the combination of Seduce and Zombify basically makes the individual player helpless (outside of the avoid/shifter advantage) where a bishop would normally be able to rush in to heal.

    Another thought I had was just ridding of All Cure pots as a whole to expand on the strength of a Bishop's dispel skill while increasing the learning curve for other players. Giving minibeans special actives like wdef/mdef/attack would also be interesting and might give niche plays for arch mages in casting Seal.
     
  5. KurayamiLove
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    KurayamiLove Skelegon

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    It's funny how the meta changes, Buccaneer was considered one of the worst jobs because HT was the endgame, and Bishop godly for obvious reasons. Now that PB is a thing the things have changed. I would change a lot of things about the whole balance of the game (Perhaps I'll make a post for fun talking about it) for Bishop I would make it better support overall, things like:
    -Dispell healing slow and reverse, being able to heal stuns from other users but not from yourself (Avoiding Ariel stuns and healing your team would be huge)
    -Angel Ray debuffing enemies so they take extra damage
    Is hard to make Bishop full-time support on these kinds of bosses without having a huge change, trash the dmg they do (because they do a lot of damage to multipart bosses), and increase by a lot their utility so they are always busy and can't be muled and TBH if we go for that route is time to get them closer to how they are currently in GMS.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
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  6. Selquin
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    Selquin Headless Horseman

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    In the modern age buccs are actually pretty good at HT too now. The combination of several bucc buffs over the years, improved mechanical skill, and better strategy has brought buccs a long way.
     
  7. KurayamiLove
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    KurayamiLove Skelegon

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    They are just OK altho I will admit that now that we get to be on the left side all the time we got a bit better + the new head hitbox. I would still buff bucc a bit tho just to nail the class I want:
    - Reduce the max lv of Energy Orb and Snatch both to lv 25 so we have 10 extra points so if we max MW we can max Hero's Will lol
    - x2 charge on bosses instead of x1.5 and perhaps 50% stance non charged 90% stance while charged.

    Other jobs still do better in HT IMO, nothing wrong with them and I can say you do want a main Bishop there to do all the support, the Defense buff is so huge you want someone at the bottom getting rid of it, and well the rest: HS, Shielding and caring of the sed target, spamming Genesis for sweet damage.
     
  8. -ovv
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    -ovv Horntail

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    People need to realize that effective DPM is way more important than dummy DPM charts when it comes to ranking/class balance. :^)
     
  9. lv1crook
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    lv1crook Capt. Latanica

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    Maybe this is dumb, idk I don’t really play bishops. But couldn’t you buff bishops damage output using a mechanic similar to elemental staff? Like timeless/reverse staff could gain a neutral or holy elemental damage bonus. That way pally could remain good, while bishops endgame damage output could be tweaked to a more respectable level.
     
  10. Gallimar
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    Gallimar King Slime

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    Also from reading mot of this. Bishops are already the kings in many areas. They generate mesos easilly, they have an easy time grinding, they have no problems beeing invited to a party. Making these changes would just result in 20 Bishops on every run.
    Bishop as it stands right now at the "overall" in MapleLegends is that they are kings, and this is why everyone makes one.
    I really dont see how buffing them any further will do any good.
     
    • Disagree Disagree x 6
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  11. halfwaysleet
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    halfwaysleet Master Chronos

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    I don't think whats being suggested will make bishops more common in PB runs, it's more to reduce the incentive to mule bishops so bish mains have an easier time finding and contributing to runs.
     
    • Agree Agree x 3
  12. OP
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    Vowels
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    Vowels Mr. Anchor

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    Perhaps I need to be more illustrative and talk about my personal experience, meet Substrata:
    Substrata is my level 150 Bishop mule that I multiclient when I run F/P Arch-mage, all she does is 'Holy Shield' for some seconds during statues stage 4 and 5, AFK in a corner and also 'Resurrect' when someone dies and it's her turn. Truly overtuned gameplay.

    [​IMG]
    Substrata doesn't need mage equips, she only needs to survive so HP equips are appropriate:

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    Since damage is irrelevant, Substrata doesn't need Genesis or Angel Ray and neither a good AP build as she has 180 AP assigned on HP/MP.

    [​IMG] [​IMG]
    She also has 10 weeks of Pink Bean pre-quest in her inventory, when a run finishes all she needs to do is talk to the NPC to get a 'Marble of Chaos' instantly and the 4K+ ginger ales she has will probably last until then or more, easy life at Temple of Time.

    [​IMG]
    To this day Substrata has 12 weeks of Pink Bean to her name:

    [​IMG]
    And later tonight another one, in our squad we don't bring any bishop player but we multiclient 6 of them to combat seduces and have infinite resurrections. As I see it, when I'm multiclienting I'm overpowered because I'm basically a F/P Arch-mage with 'Holy Shield' and 'Resurrection'.

    I understand squads run different but the point here is that Bishop players are not needed to clear Pink Bean. This is an important truth for squads that are looking to keep up with the meta and be competitive with prices and profits.

    Personally I multiclient because I want to do more for my squad, but that doesn't mean I'm ok with the current state of the class. Players are not to blame because they are allowed to strategize with what the game allows them; long ago Staff decided to allow multiclient in bosses and that's ok but only if they assume the responsibility of balancing the game with it in mind. So yea we Bishop players just want a solution to this awkward and ridiculous situation in which Substrata is as useful as any level 200 funded Bishop Main in the final boss of the game.
     
    • Agree Agree x 5
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  13. TORONTOTOKYO
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    TORONTOTOKYO Windraider

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    bump pls before bsp mains go extinct/reroll in NLs.
    Feeling the rippling effects when recruiting bishops for HT.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  14. Thuglifer
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    Thuglifer Capt. Latanica

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    I really like where this is going...

    Alternatively, IM and FPs use CL and Paralyze quite frequently during PB. Would be cool for bishops to utilize their AR's - single target. While bliz and combos (fire demon + elq) do have status effects, using this effect idea from mages, we could have AR perform debuffs on PB. Since bsp is the king of dispelling debuffs such as curse, seal etc... could even have a custom debuff chance % rate (Low - 10%?) on bosses with low duration (0.5s - 1s), requiring consistent usage of AR, giving back bosses a taste of their medicine thru a single targeted skill. Such debuffs: Curse, Seal, idk get creative? Lowers WC/MC rate?.
    If AR alone debuffing is deemed too op, could even allow a chance for this debuff via skill combos similar to Fire/Ice demon + Eql/Ifrit, in this case, AR + Baha. Seeing how these skills are beams of light, it's only fair it'd cause some sort of blindness kekw.

    Also, what was done in another server was to remove an individual from a bossing map if left inactive (moving/skilling) over 10s or more, reducing mules. Not a big fan but putting it out there.
     
  15. Syrinz
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    Syrinz Game Moderator Staff Member Game Moderator

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    Bump for awareness
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  16. TORONTOTOKYO
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    TORONTOTOKYO Windraider

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    Double Bump
     
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  17. Kiaraaa
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    Kiaraaa Chronos

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    TRIPLE BUMP BUMP BUMP
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  18. Fishy
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    Fishy Skelegon Retired Staff

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    why are bishops just shield/ress mules during statues lol.
    take off holy immune from mini beans and give them more HP.
    we just did a troll 7man PB run just to test DCing issues.
    and when our arch mage died (lvl 154 kek) , beans jsut flying everywhere and our bishop literally do anything.
    the OP is pretty self explanatory, but right now its just shitting on active bishops who are running.
     
    • Agree Agree x 2
  19. Estrahl
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    Estrahl Mr. Anchor

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    Kiyomasa, kage, miko, zoku, etc
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    Trying to keep pace with the rest of the class

    Dark Knights:[​IMG]
    Bishops:
    [​IMG]


    Everyone else

    Heroes:
    [​IMG]

    BM/MM:
    [​IMG]

    Buccaneers:
    [​IMG]

    FP/IL:
    [​IMG]

    Shads:
    [​IMG]

    Paladins:
    [​IMG]

    NLs:
    [​IMG]
     
  20. xiaoyaoz
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    xiaoyaoz Balance Team Staff Member Balance Team

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    Were statues animating every 2-3secs or do they take forever to animate also with this small squad?
     

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