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Make bossing great again

Discussion in 'Suggestions' started by akashsky, Feb 24, 2021.

  1. akashsky
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    akashsky Horntail

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    As well all know, bossing in maplelegends is in a really bad state with regards to profitability.

    The only boss left that actually generates more meso than raw farming ulu2 with a mage is pink bean. This thread is about an idea to equalize the income disparity between farming monsters and killing bosses.

    Suggestion: Add rare gachapon tickets to all boss's drop table.

    Implementation Details:

    The number of tickets dropped should range from 0 to the minimum number of people required to start the boss.

    **BRINGING MORE MULES OR PLAYERS DOES NOT INCREASE THE AMOUNT OF GACHAPON THAT WILL DROP**

    In the case of bosses that drop a lot of items like zak/ht/pink bean, perhaps remove meso drops to make room for gachapon drops.

    For example scarlion requires 3 people to enter the boss. So, scarlion drop 0 to 3 rare gachapon tickets on death.

    Zakum/ horntail require 6 people to enter the boss, so zak / horntail drop 0 to 6 rare gachapon tickets on death.

    Neo tokyo bosses only require 1 person to enter the boss. So they drop 0 to 1 rare gachapon tickets on death.

    Each # of tickets should have equal probability. So Scarlion drops on average 1.5 tickets, zak/horntail on average 3 tickets, neo tokyo on average 0.5 tickets.

    This way, if you have a minimum sized party for the expedition you are attempting, after 2 runs of said expedition, on average enough rare gachapon tickets drop so that each person gets 1 ticket.

    Example, 6 man zakum clears zakum 2 times. Each zak on average drops 3 tickets. So, on average, each person in the 6 man zak run can get 1 ticket.


    Why we should add gachapon to bossing:

    One of the big reasons farming is so much better than bossing is that not only do you get consistent meso from monster drops (which are irrespective of market value), but you also consistently get gachapon tickets. In comparison, bossing is dependent on the market value of its drops for profitability (which have lately gone down to the ground). In addition, we get no gachapon from bossing, so bossing is inferior to grinding on two fronts, raw meso gain and gachapon gain.

    A single silver ticket per person would do a lot to equalize the farming / bossing disparity. Now, instead of losing hard on meso gain and gacha gain, we instead lose hard on meso gain, and only moderately on gachapon gain. Note that farming is still significantly more efficient at generating gacha than bossing even if my suggestion is implemented.

    Furthermore, it would help with the ws / cs scarcity in the server, and allow less dependency on events to get these scrolls.

    Closing thoughts:

    Its perfectly fine for farming to vastly outclass bossing as a means of meso making. However, I would like to see more diversity in meso making options in this server. To me, it seems that adding gachapon as a common bossing drop would greatly improve its viability and add more content diversity to the server.
     
    • Agree x 47
    • Creative x 7
    • Great Work x 3
    • Like x 1
    • Disagree x 1
  2. Nise
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    Nise Supervisor Staff Member Supervisor Game Moderator

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    Would this not only close the disparity between mages and hyper-end game bossers?
    • 2-3 man NTs
    • 6 man or less HTs
    • Duo/solo Scar runs
    These people would bring in as many mules as possible to inflate the number of tickets dropped, but split it between the actual # of players.
     
    • Agree Agree x 4
  3. OP
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    akashsky
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    akashsky Horntail

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    The number of tickets dropped in my suggestion is not based on # of mules brought into the squad, but based on the hard coded in game requirements to start an expedition.

    You cannot start a horntail run without 6 people or mules registering for the run. You cannot start scarlion without 3 people or mules.

    I mean, hyper end game bossers always make more mesos than normal bossers because they can clear with less people.
     
    • Agree Agree x 6
  4. whatdatoast
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    whatdatoast Windraider

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    So only for bosses that need signs? Not including JC (would be kinda broken here)?

    I do feel that NT needs some better drops, so maybe the hard-coded minimum isn't the best. 3 would probably be reasonable.
     
  5. OP
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    akashsky
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    akashsky Horntail

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    The main reason I suggested the drop bound to be based on minimum signs was to balance against the end game bossers that can solo / duo bosses quickly.

    I myself can kill nameless / nibergen in ~20 minutes with my corsair and paladin, so having the possiblity for 3 gachapon drops might be too good for some players.

    As for JC, If you can enter with 1 person, the gacha dropped should range from 0 to 1.
     
  6. ShadowRealm
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    ShadowRealm Chronos

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    For the gacha, I'd say do a anti-mule check. If the character can deal at least 10% of the bosses health (arbitary number and scales down based on how many active people attacking the boss), then the max gachas goes up by 1. Most mules don't even do a single damage so they get excluded entirely. But if you have two attackers, I guess you deserve it for building two attackers for a long itme.
     
  7. whatdatoast
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    whatdatoast Windraider

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    Yeah I thought about that too. I think most NT bosses are soloable in 60min at 200. But even then, it's not that great. A 6-man Zak with 200s would take <20 minutes for the possibility of 6 gacha. Similarly, you can probably 3-man cleave scarga in 30 minutes for up to 6 as well.
     
  8. Shivering
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    Shivering Wolfspider

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    I think I mentioned a similar idea in Kimmy's NX thread. I'm all for this idea, but I think the rewards need to be larger. EV on a rare gach according to personal experience is 1-2m. I think at least 2x the number you've suggested would be reasonable.
     
    • Agree Agree x 7
    • Like Like x 1
  9. whatdatoast
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    whatdatoast Windraider

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    If only we had a dedicated data science team so we can figure out how many times each boss is being cleared, then figure out how many extra gach/WS/CS would be added to the server per week.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  10. Shivering
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    Shivering Wolfspider

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    That job sounds like hella fun tbh.
     
    • Agree Agree x 2
  11. Mageor
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    Mageor Mr. Anchor

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    Just a thought, are there any downsides to increasing the meso value of boss specific drops? Ex. Zak diamond changed from 500k -> 2mil or something along the lines. This could possibly stabilize the meso income for bossers
     
  12. Nise
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    Nise Supervisor Staff Member Supervisor Game Moderator

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    The more you print out money, the less valuable it becomes. Inflation :(

    Ofc you could increase meso production, and add in meso sinks to balance it out, but ML players tend to not fall into the pitfalls of using meso sinks xD
     
    • Agree Agree x 4
    • Informative Informative x 2
  13. -ovv
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    -ovv Horntail

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    Bossing economy is the crux of server health.

    If bossing, as the cornerstone of this game, loses its veritable incentive over alternative content like leeching or grinding, there is nothing to look forward to, and all predicated institutions that this server stands upon will collapse.

    If there is no incentive to boss:
    • Why sell leech if the mesos you earn will turn into weapons that will then be used to boss?
    • Why buy leech if the bossing content you aspire to enjoy has no practical merit?
    • Why spend months or years to HP wash a character for bossing if bossing ultimately becomes less incentivized than grinding?

    The reality is, people boss because it's probably the more enjoyable content of this game. However, with the current state of bossing economy, people are getting taxed to boss without realizing it. This is not healthy.
     
    • Agree Agree x 11
  14. Nise
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    Nise Supervisor Staff Member Supervisor Game Moderator

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    I do agree on the importance of bossing in the role of server health/economy. But, perhaps not in the same way you see how "MapleStory" (or even MapleLegends) was. To fully understand things, we need to look at the fundamental design of MapleStory and how the economy was intended to be balanced.

    The game was designed with grinding as its major element. Which is why there's surplus of mobs and only a very select few number of bosses that everyone is eventually funnelled into. Grinding is the game's primary way of meso generation. You spend (relatively) little pots, end up with lots of ETCs, NPCable equips, and raw mesos. Then what was MapleStory's primary way of bringing mesos out of circulation? Player-to-player exchange and taxes that occur as a result only account for very little (bear in mind there was scalable tax before hand, and ppl used to do "x" 999,999 meso purchases to evade them anyway. The primary way for MapleStory to extract circulating mesos was bossing.

    The number of potions that gets purchased for an entire expedition is an obscene amount. Compared to grinding, where you still nett positive in terms of raw mesos, bossing is intended to be a nett negative for raw mesos. Bossing was undoubtedly intended to burn raw mesos, and promote player-to-player trading by way of supply vs demand. BUT this mechanism works great only if the following conditions are met:
    • You have a consistently growing population base, with more new player than old players (so that for every 1 end-game player, there is at least 2 new players that needs things that only an end-game player can provide)
    • The speed at which people reach end-game is fairly long (to act as a barrier to end-game)
      • MapleStory also achieved this by adding later content, increasing level cap, and shifting the end-game consistently
    However with ML, I'm fairly certain we have a lot more older players or "end-game" players (160+) than consistently new players and due to leeching, exp multipliers, the rate at which people reach end game has been much condensed. The pre-existing system was meant to work for idealized MapleStory, with consistent growth and new content that shifted the end-game (and thereby the time needed for a new player to hit "end-game" as the years went by). So, I would somewhat agree that there might be a need for a new system that works for US (MapleLegends).
     
    • Great Work Great Work x 11
    • Agree Agree x 5
  15. Huiae
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    Huiae Headless Horseman

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    This. I hope who does bossing understand this first.

    Still it's fun to meet friends up and doing something together, so I do.
     
    • Agree Agree x 3
  16. -ovv
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    -ovv Horntail

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    Wouldn't you think that we'll run into an even bigger problem once more and more people realize bossing is not worthwhile? What happens to the rest of the economy (and the primary meso sink) if more and more people shift away from bossing and move back to grinding? If you can get more exp and mesos (and gacha) by grinding at Shaolin all the while spending fewer in pots, what incentive would people have to go back to bossing?

    This is the dilemma.

    I agree with most of your points but I'm highlighting this section because I find this to be the main point of concern.

    In the grindfest that is the game of Maplestory, part of server growth relied on people quitting overtime. However, over the past year, we've been put in a weird state where people are locked into this game for external reasons. Many more people are simply grinding it out to end-game, thus shaping our server with a top-heavy population. IMO, much of this is exacerbated by content - mainly, Shaolin - that I think is unbalanced.

    Honestly, I don't know where I'm going with this post. One can only guess how things will sort itself out in the next year. But I trust that staff are planning something behind the scenes to help remedy some of these concerns that older players have been pointing out, memes and all.
     
    • Agree Agree x 2
  17. whatdatoast
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    whatdatoast Windraider

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    So what i'm hearing is that if you increase the raw meso gain from bossing, you'd have to introduce a source of meso sink to compensate? How about a Chair NPC that sells old or GM-exclusive chairs for 100m each. I'll spend all my money instantly. Please unleash the trove $_$
     
    • Disagree Disagree x 4
    • Like Like x 2
    • Agree Agree x 1
  18. Magen
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    Magen Selkie Jr.

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    Actually this suggestion is very good, the time you spent on bosses you could get much more gachas than the min number required to boss.
    The only boss I think its abit tricky is Zakum - where its 6man signs and can be killed in 15mins (if squad is good enough).
    I would also suggest to add scrolls that cant be find on mobs (not talking about WS/CS)
    like bottomwear for dex 30% (dex+accuracy and not dex+speed), Helmet for Accuracy 60% and so on :/
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  19. yurain
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    yurain Windraider

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    Instead of dropping gacha, I think it is better to just "use" the gacha and drop the items on the spot.
    Then the host can sell those item for a fairer spilt, instead of rolling for gacha where you can end up with nothing.
    It is gonna be epic when that zak shoots out a CS/WS when it dies.

    Anyway, bossing is meant a change for pace for the leeching/grinding game anyway and for the social aspect as well.
    I don't think most players rely on bossing to "get rich" anyway, other than maybe PB or HT when MW20 drops.

    I believe self leeching at all level is more profitable on average than bossing anyway, if you take into considering the time taking for boss pre-quest/ gathering your squad and stuffs.
     
  20. Huiae
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    Huiae Headless Horseman

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    If peoples notice bossing is not rewardful, and start to avoid, supply of bossing stuff will be decreased and because of supply and demand, bossing stuffs prices will rise up.

    Ofc, ppl who seeks rewards will get again to bossing in that case.

    That's how economy works. Current price of bossing stuff is result of current supply-demand. Don't forget that.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
    • Disagree Disagree x 1

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