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New Mage damage formula

Discussion in 'Suggestions' started by brunandes, Dec 1, 2023.

  1. akashsky
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    akashsky Horntail

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    Yeah, but it kinda falls apart since the availability of cheese isn't high enough, and onyx apple giving +100 magic isn't enough of a boost even with the new scaling, especially with the opportunity cost of using an apple on an attacker.

    I don't really have any strong opinion on it. Its good for the "rich", and bad for the "poor" (where i will define rich as those above the TMA for parity, and poor as those below it). The silver lining for the poor players is that if they are serious about playing their class, they can become one of the "rich" with enough effort and ultimately be stronger than they were before.

    As it stands, I believe the average mage player was probably nerfed by the change.
     
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  2. Vowels
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    Vowels Mr. Anchor

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    so this is what this change is about? the rich vs the poor? I guess the balance team just wanted to attack the less wealthy players rather than correcting the damage output and promoting gear relevance??

    describing the balance change as "rich vs. poor" misrepresents the balance team intentions, divides the mage players, ignores the reasons the change was made and paints the entire thing as an injustice. Framing it as an attack on less-funded players is misleading, this isn't a marvel movie
     
    Last edited: Dec 5, 2023
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  3. akashsky
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    akashsky Horntail

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    Call it how you want, but I am using rich to refer as those above the TMA listed in this table, and poor to refer to those below it.

    upload_2023-12-5_14-22-45.png

    Sounds to me like you are projecting here.
     
  4. fartsy
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    fartsy Zakum

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    just need 3 30s on all gears - which is totally achievable by 200

    edit: it's closer to 2 30s and going average on 70s (below)

    made everything scale with amount of 30s used and rest of slots are rounded down from EV of 70%s, held hat/pendant/shoe static, used red emerald earrings & red markers, shield has 7 slots

    upload_2023-12-5_17-47-53.png
    upload_2023-12-5_17-47-44.png
    upload_2023-12-5_17-47-33.png
    upload_2023-12-5_17-47-23.png
    upload_2023-12-5_17-47-12.png
    upload_2023-12-5_17-47-3.png
     

    Attached Files:

    Last edited: Dec 5, 2023
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  5. OP
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    brunandes
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    brunandes Windraider

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    Tell me which part of the NL formula looks quadratic? I suggest going back to school.
     
    • Creative Creative x 1
  6. OP
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    brunandes
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    brunandes Windraider

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    You seem to be framing too. Balance team should have considered all data points and gave a good analysis on overall server impact, instead of just saying things like 'don't worry you didn't get nerfed as long as you get >2b of gear'.
     
  7. Vowels
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    Vowels Mr. Anchor

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    everything is framed
    I'm just saying that the balance team rationale behind the balance decision isn't straight up "nerf the poor", which is correct
     
  8. LawdHeComin
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    LawdHeComin Blue Snail

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    I didn't know where to post since there are multiple topics. I just wanted to throw out the viewpoint of an odd player.

    Odd players fully expect and embrace that we do *terrible* damage as compared to regular jobs in most cases. We're also extremely niche and not expecting anyone to cater to our weird playstyle. I play a variety of oddjobs which are mostly mages, so this change essentially took away my ability to use several skills on each character. I've chosen to adapt to the change and do sp resets, but safe to say I'm in the camp that would like the changes to be less extreme on the low end. With over 400 str my affected skills are never going to do more than 1 damage to even snails. I think I'm the only person on the server that mains this (a hybrid str/int build that attacks with both melee and spells). There are a few others with similar characters.

    I'm absolute garbage at math and formulas, but if there's any change to the new formula I'd like to see its to raise the "floor" of the formula to something that doesn't completely negate damage with these spells. The upper limit buff that rewards gearing seems fine and I am completely ignorant of its varying effects on regular mages of different levels (but it seems divided even among them). Gaining damage from leveling up is one of my main motivations since I need a large stat pool to be even badly passable at both my damage types (helped by mw20). Although my gear is really weird, I do have a 219 tma ele staff I've been waiting ages to equip. Gearing is a goal for me too, just not in the way a standard mage would. Is there any reason why the formula can't be something like:

    (a modest base amount) * (the intended buff to gearing)

    rather than being focused on a base amount gated behind x total stat and only increasing after the threshold? It just seems like the low end of the formula is very punishing. Forgive me if I'm completely misunderstanding math (probably). Maybe my post is pointless, but I'd rather be part of the conversation than not. I know oddjobs are weird and most people don't care about them, but if there's a chance we can be considered in any change that might happen that would be cool.
     
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  9. OP
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    brunandes
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    brunandes Windraider

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    I'm not balance team, you are not balance team. We don't know their thinking process, we can see the impact. That the 'poor' did get nerfed.
     
  10. abe27342
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    abe27342 Orange Mushroom

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    the weapon attack * luk part (which are analogous to `x` and `y` in the 2-variable case linked)
    upload_2023-12-5_16-51-9.png
     
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  11. Vowels
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    Vowels Mr. Anchor

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    eh I thought they made a balance thread explaining their thought process, here it is:

    https://forum.maplelegends.com/index.php?threads/november-2023-balance-changes-explained.52097/

    let me quote: "The main objective of this change is to give mage players a more meaningful gear upgrade progression. The damage formula for Meteor, Blizzard, and Genesis have not been changed in order to maintain the current, well-established meta"

    I can not attribute to those words that they were just trying to fuck over the 'poor' .
     
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  12. OP
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    brunandes
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    brunandes Windraider

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    Of course, if you take everything said at face value. If they did want to fuck over the poor, do you think they will say it out loud?
     
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  13. OP
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    brunandes
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    brunandes Windraider

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    In case you didn't read the wiki page shared by the other person, a quadratic equation requires at least once factor with a square. Is luk or weapon attack squared?
     
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  14. iPippy
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    iPippy Nightshadow

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    I'm surprised there's enough tin foil to cover such a massive brain
     
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  15. OP
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    brunandes
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    brunandes Windraider

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  16. OP
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    brunandes
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    brunandes Windraider

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    Let's be clear, I'm not accusing the staff of any ulterior intentions, I'm just questioning whether they made enough considerations before releasing such a flawed formula. And a word of advice since I don't think we are 10 year olds, I recommend not taking everything you read online at face value.
     
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  17. Vowels
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    Vowels Mr. Anchor

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    my dude, we are mage players, I love mage players
    can you not see the future, full of possibilities, we play the best meso making class in the game (only second to shadower), we will make the mesos when we get motivated to become stronger.
    We want to do content don't we? we want to contribute to the boss run and feel good about it? I think the possibilities are better now if you wanna go for it (based)
     
    Last edited: Dec 6, 2023
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  18. abe27342
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    abe27342 Orange Mushroom

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    from your wikipedia page (accurate but not generally pedagogically great for math, to be fair)
    upload_2023-12-5_17-14-53.png
    happen to remember from your middle/high school math how you define the degree of a multivariable polynomial? I must need a refresher.
     
    Last edited: Dec 6, 2023
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  19. OP
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    brunandes
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    brunandes Windraider

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    2nd degree means ^2. 3rd degree means ^3.
     
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  20. abe27342
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    abe27342 Orange Mushroom

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    • Agree Agree x 2
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