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Quality of Life Changes

Discussion in 'Suggestions' started by Ciso, May 15, 2024.

Wanted to gauge everyone's thoughts on this with a poll :)

  1. AP and SP resets should be free

    17 vote(s)
    25.4%
  2. AP and SP resets should NOT be free

    44 vote(s)
    65.7%
  3. Bossing structure should be changed to 1 kill per day

    6 vote(s)
    9.0%
  4. Bossing structure should stay the same

    35 vote(s)
    52.2%
Multiple votes are allowed.
  1. iPippy
    Offline

    iPippy Nightshadow

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    7:02 PM
    iPippy
    Assuming there will be dks available to catch all the challenge characters is massive copium and we all know it. Luk HB mules maybe, but the dk class itself is fundamentally flawed to never provide enough utility to actually warrant a player to actually play it over pumping luk. Even then, I'd argue that the players who currently make those mules are still better off just making an extra NL/shad and ditching both their unwashed friends and need for hb together, perpetuating the endgame status quo.

    Though if you ask me, placing a party buff mandatory for these players' survival on the class which can barely operate without dying was always going to be a recipe for disaster. They are also the most buff dependent class (perhaps second to unwashed sair), which really restricts the number of NLs which can actually benefit from hb before making the dk sacrifice its own already lower output. And that's the moment it's better to just mule it. Although perhaps that's simply a testament to how strong luk is as a stat, but I digress...

    Im sure there will be dks made because of farming/challenges, but I'm also sure there will not be dks played. And I unfortunately do not have faith that staff will figure it out.
     
    • Agree Agree x 2
  2. fartsy
    Online

    fartsy Zakum

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    6:02 PM
    Fartsy
    F/P Wizard
    Pasta

    o shit i was too busy grinding lpq at that time. that’s pretty close to implementation then

    wouldn’t have been that bad since total nx was limited to 5k across all accounts
     
  3. fartsy
    Online

    fartsy Zakum

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    6:02 PM
    Fartsy
    F/P Wizard
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    nah when it comes to muling there are other ways to use dk regardless of luk or presence of unwashed attackers
     
  4. Subterlabor
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    Subterlabor Headless Horseman

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    Mar 13, 2023
    5:02 PM
    SweatLord
    Bowmaster
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    Toilet
    I thought that got nerfed tho
     
  5. OP
    OP
    Ciso
    Offline

    Ciso Slime

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    7:02 PM
    Ciso
    Shadower
    163
    Ahh yes farming 1 year for something that should be free. Imagine playing world of warcraft and not being able to refund your talents. Imagine playing path of exile and not being able to refund your passives. LMAO
     
    • Disagree Disagree x 1
  6. OP
    OP
    Ciso
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    Ciso Slime

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    7:02 PM
    Ciso
    Shadower
    163
    So crazy. They need to stop listening to the vocal minority. Washing is bad for the game period.
     
  7. OP
    OP
    Ciso
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    Ciso Slime

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    7:02 PM
    Ciso
    Shadower
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    Starting to agree with this. I'm thinking the complete removal of hp washing is the only thing that can be good for the game. Anyone who washed loses all of that HP and is forced to do the HP challenges. This will make HB relevant again and people will have to actually play the game again during bossing.
     
    • Disagree Disagree x 2
  8. Eclipsed
    Offline

    Eclipsed Blue Snail

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    Apr 28, 2024
    6:02 PM
    RubyAlch
    F/P Mage
    59
    Mars
    I'm still new to Legends, and crawling to 3rd job F/P rn (70 levels of single target skills so fuuuuun...), but I hopped over here to read while on the grind--
    From what I can tell HP Washing is the norm to hit 30K HP to ease the risk of skill issue dying to big hitter bosses
    I still am not too familiar with challenges, but have heard those + Monster Book Ring + Quest Ring If/Once that gets added +/- Hyper Body can help alleviate the " need" for HP Washing
    Ignoring the "Just Dodge" point
    I think it's fine to just play how you want while these roll out over time. Don't stress over "ruining" characters as these should be an option to "fix" those. And even if you want to start a new character or only min/max; you can still use those characters to prep gear or other items ahead of time to trade around. It's not like this is reboot where you'd be permanently stuck with a character as is with items bound--
    I need to look into DrK to see what all is "bad", but I still planned to fund one through my F/P so it's only a matter of time there.
    Oh right, and others have brought up events also handing out AP/SP Resets so there's that too--
    Don't stress over "omg years to do anything", and just play what / when you can. No need to rush an unhealthy amount. Even if you hit a wall; surely there's still other content you can do. You can farm to get NX too so it's not as time locked as suggested.
    That being said I agree with the suggestion to have bosses drop NX.

    As for the Boss change suggestions--
    I don't like the idea of nerfing the amount of times you can fight a boss; some people will like bossing so why make it so they can't do it as much? Should there be a limit on PQ entries too? I don't think so. If you don't have the time or ability to max out bossing then don't. Again this isn't Reboot; so you can always trade / buy things instead of doing the boss (or get the gear to maybe become strong enough to do it). And, if it's just too much to fit into your schedule / you feel too obligated to max out on them--
    take a step back, and re-evaluate your position. This is a game where you can do things just about as much or as little as you'd like.
    So just don't do them if you can't/don't want too.

    Both with "Meta" classes and content; don't become a servant to the game, and remember to just enjoy yourself.
     
    • Like Like x 2
    • Disagree Disagree x 1
    • Friendly Friendly x 1
  9. LeonardoJF
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    LeonardoJF Horntail

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    8:02 PM
    ItzLeo
    Paladin
    200
    Favela
    I believe that the biggest problem with wash was that with the implementation of legends content it did not follow some things from GMS, for example, when toad was released on gms it already had self HB and rex earring.

    In a way, I believe that end game content has to be difficult (not excluding people) but something difficult refers to the end game

    I was particularly sad when warrior technically couldn't do BG (even though I only did it once in the end, keke)
    I believe that "n" other things can be launched together with the challenges to go forward, belt with hp, medal with hp, maybe even a nerfed version of a C.htp
     
    • Like Like x 1
    • Informative Informative x 1
  10. OP
    OP
    Ciso
    Offline

    Ciso Slime

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    7:02 PM
    Ciso
    Shadower
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    Slightly different because PQs are used for leveling. There's no level limit on bossing and the rewards are too great. If they allowed people to boss as much as they want then there would be problems which is another reason why they put a limit on the # of runs. But why such an arbitrary number? It makes no sense to me...just change it to 1.

    I agree with everything else you said though. It's just crazy that even in private servers, these horrible game design decisions still seep through when they can easily be removed.
     
  11. beegoratto
    Online

    beegoratto Zakum

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    4:02 PM
    leetoratto
    Bowmaster
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    I’m a little confused. 1 year is about the time a typical player will be able to hit 160, which is still well before the point where washing matters. What’s wrong with just… playing the game for a year?

    I’m not going to speak on behalf of everyone, but I’m personally working on my own 30k NL project after doing aforementioned planning ahead and it’s pretty satisfying. Seeing the effort you’ve put in previously culminate into something exceptional is part of why I enjoy playing MMORPGs. If I was looking for instant gratification, I probably would play something else with 30 minute matches like CS or TFT. If you’re here, you’re here for the long haul.

    My first character I was able to wash to 20k potential within 6 months of joining the server, again just through playing the game and farming events. It’s really not that difficult if you just play the game. 6 months is about what it takes most players to even hit 4th job.
     
    • Like Like x 5
    • Agree Agree x 1
  12. fael
    Online

    fael Headless Horseman

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    8:02 PM
    Fael
    Night Lord
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    SURRA
    I used to see a lot of DrKs when I started on covid era, when people weren't caring about endgame and only wanted to have some fun. As I said before, we need to work for DrKs buffs to make them attractive too. And I'm sure staff is aware about it's situation and I hope they bring up something soon.
    Besides that, DrKs are definitely a nostalgic job, was probably one of the best back then, and people love it. I really trust if there is demand from challenge ranged jobs, there will be people looking to make DrKs aswell.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  13. -ovv
    Online

    -ovv Horntail

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    4:02 PM
    -ovv
    Beginner
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    Seems like we have this conversation every year or so.

    The biggest misconception new players have with washing is they only see the big number of total NX required for a full wash when in reality a large chunk of that NX cost comes after you've established potential with lots of MP reserves. Your character is otherwise fully playable at that point, and you can vote to convert your MP into HP.

    The true start up cost is only around 750k-1m NX which lets you HP wash up to your target base INT. After that, you gain main stats by MP washing until end of wash. You'll be gimped out on however much base INT, but you'll have enough main stat to do things like card hunt. I did this on my shadower and was able to farm a t10 ring at like level 140, even with ~260 base INT. Same for my corsair with 390 base INT.
     
    Last edited: May 17, 2024
    • Agree Agree x 7
    • Like Like x 1
  14. CaptainNemo
    Online

    CaptainNemo Mr. Anchor

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    4:02 PM
    CaptainNemo
    Islander
    Ossyrians
    You can still reset your AP and SP, it's just not instant and free. This just looks whiny.
     
  15. Oradious
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    Oradious Capt. Latanica

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    Oradious
    F/P Arch Mage, Gunslinger, Buccaneer
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    I think the server's age is past the point where it can implement what you desire from an old school maple server.

    In other words, you are playing the wrong server.
     
    • Agree Agree x 3
    • Like Like x 1
  16. lv1crook
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    lv1crook Capt. Latanica

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    4:02 PM
    Level1Crook
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    If it was reworked where there was like a single Zakum run with 1.5x the HP but 2x the reward I think it would be good actually. That way if you have a mediocre team or a toxic member you don’t have to deal with it as much. And the rewards for bossing were never super crazy anyway. But I would want a way to rejoin an expedition if you disconnect before I’m comfortable with it in the game.

    the APR idea is just bad and I will not even bother commenting on it.

    as far as SPRs go, I think a rework is also in order. Maybe not free, but it does cost a ridiculous amount of NX to change your build in later jobs. Maybe something like:

    Full SPR reset for lv29 and below:
    5.5k NX

    Full SPR reset for lv69 and below:
    10k NX

    Full SPR reset for lv119 and below:
    20k NX

    FULL SPR reset for all skills:
    35k NX

    Right now it’s ridiculous and archaic, you change one skill and you have to vote for 2 weeks in 4th job.
     
    Last edited: May 17, 2024
  17. DrChuchu
    Online

    DrChuchu Balance Team Staff Member Balance Team

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    7:02 PM
    DrPikachu
    Night Lord
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    I read pretty much all of the posts on the forums, so yes we are aware of current issues for some classes right now
     
    • Like Like x 4
    • Friendly Friendly x 3
  18. CaptainNemo
    Online

    CaptainNemo Mr. Anchor

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    4:02 PM
    CaptainNemo
    Islander
    Ossyrians
    Due to my BM originally being OssLock and reaching level 140 with the guild stagnating hard, I had used all my 4th job SP on my 1st-3rd job skills before leaving the challenge and promoting to 4th job. Here's the total amount of NX spent to "fix" my skills because of my choice of adding them post level 120:
    60 total SP resets to fix my skills, 1 extra to acquire Hero's Will. What would have been 48 days of raw voting was lessened by acquiring NX cards from CWK and grinding.
    upload_2024-5-17_14-38-39.png

    I do think it's exceedingly expensive, and the price point deserves a look at. I think lowering the initial reset cost, as well as bundling in packs of 10/20/30 with reduced pricing for the bulk bundle would be a good option.
     
    • Like Like x 1
    • Agree Agree x 1
  19. Tommygunner
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    Tommygunner Slimy

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    7:02 PM
    i agree, the TRUE cost of washing is the mp washing and INT reset. I think my MM did those with 2-3mil NX? (which, still, is a lot of NX).

    SO GIVEN THIS POINT, what do you think about having two different type of NX, one for washing hp and one for main-stat only, for converting INT into main stat? that way, the initial barrier to having playable washing character is lowered, but the total amount of NX for having a washed character can stay the same

    still i doubt kimmy would agree to any of these changes LOL
     
    Last edited: May 17, 2024
  20. fael
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    fael Headless Horseman

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    8:02 PM
    Fael
    Night Lord
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    People will still complain imo. The main problem with washing is that people who never tried it before keeps hearing bullshit from people who also never did it before. For the reason it requires a lot of confusing information and also planning your character since when you start, I really like the challenges.
     
    Last edited: May 17, 2024
    • Agree Agree x 1

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