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Suggestion to economy

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Nachthexen, Jul 28, 2023.

  1. Nachthexen
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    Nachthexen Orange Mushroom

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    Hi, Every Mapler. i've been played ML in several years. without preamble, let me talk about economy of ML. I remember that the prices in the 2017-2018 years, at that time, prices of WS and CS are not too much expensive like present. as far as i know, i sold a WS to 100million. but, let's see now. prices of WS and CS is 350million, generally it's too difficult to earn like this amounts. let me say easily, economy system have been experienced hyper-inflation.

    the reason why appears this problem can be explained by 3 cause. (maybe, there could be existed more reason that i couldn't notice.)

    first, the Corona-virus Pendemic attracted a large people to ML, so that Meso inflation occured by new people. however, Meso that created by this way almost have been flowed to Old Players from new players because they bought leeching, scrolls, equips, etc.

    in result, the gap between rich and poor has been rised during about 3~4 years, so that reached the situation that if they are not prepared high level and high quality equips, it can't be to approach rare items by themselves.

    Second, rich people collect mesoes and coins over and over. As the evidence, although after corona virus pendemic, people who are playing consistently have been decreased, prices no change or even increased a little.

    In generally, if have decreased people in server, so that total people who make money also have decreased too, money that be created by people must be growed less than past. In other words, because Amount of supplying of money has been decreased, the prices of items must to be go down. But it wasn't.

    Therefore, we can guess what there exist a price-fixing. It's not free market but monopolistic system.

    Third. unconvincing and uncomfortable update directionality. One of them is what reduced amount of mobs spawn in some maps because GMs have been worried for inflations in this server. But these action deprived chances to new players what to improve their status. Now, it's too difficult to make money to new players, and There's no way to earn high quality equipments and weapons, therefore so many people has been left or quitted.

    In addition, I can speak that reducing coin pouches drop rate from defeated bosses was worst decision. The possibility of gaining coins don't affect directly to occur inflation. It just only occurs to accessibility for WS and CS. Even this, the exchange rate for coin to WS/CS is ridiculous expensive. For example, To make one of WS/CS, must to kill Zakum as alone at most 20~30 times above. Naturally, it requires to spend much time, it's heavy labor compared with that rewards. Who are willing to this? Only few people who are extremely players.

    So, my suggestion is like this. First of all, reduce supplying money in server. When character is over the 120 Level, let the money that have dropped by defeated mobs decrease. In this case, we can expect to be reduced effectively what is total amount of money supplied. As result, value of money will be higher, price of itmes is going to be descend gradually.

    And then, make more ways to coins and money. for instance, there's the method to use quests and events. Both one is very intuitive ways to control of economy. If add more reward to abandoned quests, people are going to try quests and events gladly.

    Finally, We can consider to adjust the prices specific items, such as prestige coins, WS/CS, piece/rock of time etc..

    If the market were interrupting by price-fixing, so many people can't approach to specific items, GMs can propose the more reasonable price about that items. But it must be discussed carefully.

    My Suggestion is end. Please tell me if you have better ideas.
     
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  2. Ainz
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    Ainz Zakum

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    My memory might be failing me, but I don't recall this being listed in any of the balance update threads.

    Making meso as a new player really isn't as impossible as people make it out to be. Sure, you have less access to strategies like multimage farming etc, but selling low level leech (which is a fairly low barrier of entry) is more profitable now than it has ever been.

    Sure, I can kind of see where you're going with this. CS and WS are fairly hard items to get. However, do you feel like they should be easily accessible to new/earlygame/midgame players? Ws and cs are essentially only relevant for endgame players. On top of that, they're only really required for some of the final stages of upgrading your gear.
    In my humblest of opinions, it seems fair that a character's final upgrades should be a slow process.

    This suggestion would just result in more muling strats. Multi-dk, perhaps even a meta with 3rd job I/Ls multi'd into oblivion. It wouldn't achieve anything in the grand scheme of things.

    Quests are already a very lucrative way for new players to make money. There's multiple guides on the forum to illustrate this.
    As for events, these have traditionally already been an effective way for players (new and old alike) to make money. Raffles give people a surprisingly good chance of stumbling their way into valuable items.


    While I agree the economy currently feels like it's not in a great spot, I don't believe the cause & effect you're addressing here is aimed at the right things. Great job on making a suggestion, though, we need people to keep doing so!OnionPerfectOnionPerfect
     
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  3. kiwiz
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    kiwiz Skelegon

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    Many players often use the price of White Scrolls in meso as an indicator to gauge the health of the market, as it significantly affects their ability to obtain perfect weapons. The introduction of Prestigious Coins aimed to establish a "fixed price" for White Scroll and Chaos Scrolls, not in terms of meso cost, but rather in relation to the effort and commitment players put into boss expeditions.

    The perspective of players on what items are considered low, mid, or high-range varies greatly. Objectively, the current market appears favorable for new players but poses challenges for mid-game players transitioning to the end-game. This shift can be attributed to players finding optimized methods to farm resources. For new players, finding or creating valuable equipment within their meso budget is relatively easy, and many items that were once considered good are now more affordable.

    Although certain items have seen a rise in price, others like MW20 and Gen30 books have significantly dropped due to players being better equipped to handle harder content like Horntail runs. In the past, when I started playing my Bishop in 2018, it cost me around 3 billion mesos to gear up to my current state. MW30 and Gen30 books were quite expensive, but I found INT gears at half the price. Nowadays, it might still cost around 3 billion mesos to reach my current level, even with INT items having doubled in price. However, MW30 and Gen30 books have dropped to below 50% of their previous price, creating a balance in overall costs.
     
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  4. TORONTOTOKYO
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    TORONTOTOKYO Windraider

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    that means if u kill it 2100 times, u will get 70 ws and hence a perfect weapon. That take 1050 days
    if you have 2 characters can zak on both, say bishop and an attacker, it will take u 525 days. thats 1yr + for a perfect weapon. seems pretty good.
     
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  5. -ovv
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    -ovv Horntail

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    Holy shit, he's solved it!
     
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  6. Lucidcat
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    Lucidcat Mixed Golem

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    let it go, find a way to join all contents the perfect gear gamers can join with only 10%-20% fund of them.
     
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  7. Subterlabor
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    Subterlabor Wolfspider

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    Prepare for mass "disagreeing" from all the end-game capable players who swarm the forums. LF>Mid game player input.

    This was on my mind earlier so try to finish reading it if you care enough.

    I agree that part of the market and ws/cs are brutally overpriced, but it's less of a "inflation" issue and more so that consistently the balance team has made money sinks that indirectly hurt the general well being of early-mid game players. (imo)
    Unless you are very endgame ws/cs are not even remotely accessible in any form. Making money in this server has continuously become harder and harder to the point it's a turn off from the game itself. Why am I paying over inflated prices for pots as an attacker class, who generally speaking already profits a net loss from bossing? To stop the small percent of multi mage players from profiting marginally?

    Why is a single "endgame" equip taking months-YEARS to get and achieve through ws+10 considered "normal/acceptable?" If I complete that character gear-wise, I would just start a new one and have that as my next project. We have ruined most content profiting through the release of coins, yet made coins so seldomly dropped that you will almost always lose money in bossing content.

    Questing is a good way to fund a low level character from 0-120 not much more.

    Want to farm profitable items to sell? We nerfed that. (Mage ult nerfs)
    Want a chance of striking big on gach while you grind? We nerfed that. (skill per basis drop nerfs)
    Want to run bossing content for meso? We (indirectly) nerfed that. -most- content is a net loss. (Zak, HT) Genesis 20 worthless, Zak/Pap skillbooks worthless, Zak SB due to release of coins
    Pap+rav daily for meso? great! 1-4m/day in equips, pouches are too rare to consider reliable income.

    So what are my options?
    Sell leech
    Get to deep end-game bossing content/high tier leech levels+tma (1 hit petri/skele)
    Multimage (is this still even profitable/worth?)
    Roar mules(?)

    This now introduces another issue. You're now end-game levels! You have the dpm+levels to run PB/Nt/Berga etc etc, awesome.

    I didn't wash, so I can't run it even with HB, or nobody will bring me without xx,xxx HP as a ranged char. So what are my options again? Sell leech and/or start completely over and wait 2-2.5 years to be able to run any meaningful content as a ranged attacker.

    With regards to HP washing in my post, why have we not boosted the drop rate of nx in game to a passive-income level? Why are pet equip HP scrolls so bad? Why is mage ultimate/Skill based card farming nerfed at all if we claim to be HP washing optional, and want a solution to this issue?

    I've seen the approach the staff has taken in other games before mainly being "Escape from Tarkov" but not in a form of currency-related issues. (It'll make sense if you read through)

    EFT is a first person shooter, and the player base kept complaining constantly that recoil was too "easy" to control (meso making in ML) and so the dev's kept nerfing guns, then inertia/movement in the game, then drop rate of high-value items (money) within the game.
    Eventually the game was so nerfed down, the player base was up in arms because the game was horrible to try playing. Nobody could make any money, trader items were so inflated by the devs you literally could not make money anymore, even twitch streamers who played it 8-12hours/day, everyday were having issues.

    After a few months and after a huge majority of the player base quit the game they have been consistently backtracking all the nerf's, and trying to buff money making, recoil, inertia etc etc because the nerf's were subtle, but damaging the game, in the end not many players returned.

    I don't pretend to know how to balance a game like this, I know the Balance team puts in a huge amount of work and statistics to do the work they do, but personally I see the same path being taken with ML as I did with EFT and I don't think it's the correct one.

     
    Last edited: Jul 28, 2023
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  8. OP
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    Nachthexen
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    Nachthexen Orange Mushroom

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    1. The truth what everyone know is, TOT has been nuffed.

    2. I agree. apporaching to CS/WS must be longest adventure. But it's too heavy. When we remember year 2018, price of WS formed 100m. Why didn't you point out of it? when compared with year 2018, now is extremely disadvantageous.

    3. I didn't understand what is means.

    4. I mean, it's every quests not only few well-known quests. There exists 2,000 over at least, but almost of them don't have any profits when they are completed. It's wasting to neglect without any actions to these contents.
     
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  9. kiwiz
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    kiwiz Skelegon

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    It is understandable that some players may choose to quit the game due to the significant commitment required to reach certain content, especially on a low-rate server. While market monopolies can influence prices, their impact is typically felt more by mid to end-game players. New players are not usually affected by market monopolies since they are still far from reaching end-game content.

    The genuine issues faced by new players, such as early game meso constraints, leveling up, gearing up, accuracy, and potion management have been addressed multiple times and the community has always been more than willing to help out.

    As the game progresses, new players should be aware that the challenge of obtaining high-end equipment is a goal that is usually reserved for more experienced and dedicated players who have progressed further in the game. It is crucial to manage expectations and understand that perfecting equipment requires substantial time, effort, and resources, which may not be achievable in the early stages of the game.
     
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  10. Subterlabor
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    Subterlabor Wolfspider

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    this logic makes me head hurt, almost more than farming Zak for coins+ws
     
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  11. Subterlabor
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    Subterlabor Wolfspider

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    The more I read economy/class skill related posts the more I feel it's pointless trying to speak out. You will constantly get deep end-game people disagreeing with you stating everything is perfect as it is, while they are completely capable of achieving what 80%+ of the player base is incapable of ever getting. There is no early-mid game input, thus your post gets shunted into oblivion. People can speak out all they like and voice opinions of early-early endgame issues but ultimately the answers are always the same generic response from people that it does not effect.
     
    Last edited: Jul 28, 2023
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  12. Ainz
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    Ainz Zakum

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    Seeing how this is probably addressed towards me (as I'm the only one that disagreed your post), I'll reply to it.

    I feel like there's a sense of hypocrisy in disagreeing my post and then getting upset when I also disagree with yours. For clarity sake, I didn't disagree with your post on a tit-for-tat basis, I just didn't agree with the contents of it.

    Furthermore, as someone who's never even ran horntail other than when I bought HTP's, I'm flattered by the term endgame player.
     
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  13. kiwiz
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    kiwiz Skelegon

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    Many players who complain about the market's impact on their ability to obtain perfect weapons might not fully grasp the amount of effort required to create them. The current market dynamics, along with the readily available knowledge and resources, have made it relatively easier for players to achieve as compared to the past. Thanks to the wealth of information and strategies available, players today can streamline their efforts and reach their goal with less effort than players in the past had to invest.
     
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  14. Subterlabor
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    Subterlabor Wolfspider

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    To specify no it was not addressing you or anyone in specific but in general since I've become "active" among the forums
     
    Last edited: Jul 28, 2023
  15. Subterlabor
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    Subterlabor Wolfspider

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    Although your merching post+success is impressive I disagree. Not everyone has the knowledge or ability to merch the same levels you have. Even if someone does match your abilities, in 68 days you have managed to accrue 1.5b
    Given the ws price of 330-340m (with +10m exchange price) you have managed to buy 4.4 white scrolls. If you managed a perfect 10% scroll rate with ws+10 on 7 slots it would take just shy of 3 years to perfect an item. This is "relatively easier" to you?
     
  16. TORONTOTOKYO
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    TORONTOTOKYO Windraider

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    just imagine if there is no p coin? you wont be able to get any gear progression without a farming/leech setup
     
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  17. TORONTOTOKYO
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    TORONTOTOKYO Windraider

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    alot of players with that perfect weapon +7 are usually >2/3yr players...
     
  18. Subterlabor
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    Subterlabor Wolfspider

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    I thought about this earlier and was curious whether the skillbook prices would rise again, and bring profit back into bossing (not as many people running) or whether the prices are irreparable. Regardless I don't think it's even possible to get a ws+10 weapon through bossing pre-pb/nt(?) even then I've heard it's generally not super profitable due to required number of attackers.

    S>Leech until +7
     
  19. Ainz
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    Ainz Zakum

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    Then again, perfecting a weapon pre-pb/nt isn't really a realistic goal :)
     
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  20. Subterlabor
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    Subterlabor Wolfspider

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    Nothing in this game is a realistic goal, I have scrolled 10/10 60%'s, then boomed endless items with 70%'s that had a 70% (literally did the math, exactly 70%) fail rate. The game is rigged, it's all a lie
     
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