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Suggestion to economy

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Nachthexen, Jul 28, 2023.

  1. beegoratto
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    beegoratto Skelosaurus

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    leetoratto
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    I do wonder if this is a meso problem or something else. Coins manage to stay stable for a year, as well as weapon prices, but many mid game common “staples” have gone up significantly. If we were to compare two items:
    14 wa gloves: 450m -> 550m
    12 dex earrings: 130m -> 180m

    both have experienced a significant increases in price. One could attribute the gloves to increased number of endgame players trying to get 8/5 gloves, but the earrings don’t really make much sense to me. Many items have retained their value without going up significantly over the past year, including most scrolls, so I wonder why items like earrings have gone up in price.
     
    Last edited: Jul 29, 2023
  2. TORONTOTOKYO
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    TORONTOTOKYO Windraider

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    more players looking for upgrades. the 10dex earring doesnt cut it anymore.
    legends has a top heavy player base.
     
  3. fartsy
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    fartsy Skelosaurus

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    have u seen cape prices (in coins)
     
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  4. LeonardoJF
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    LeonardoJF Zakum

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    ItzLeo
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    I agree with you, but
    let me say something about gloves, when I got 150 farmar reverse it was like 12-15m, because of the price of PoT, but I repeat, I agree with you a lot, just to talk about gloves
     
  5. Palladino
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    Palladino Master Chronos

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    I took the liberty of turning your work of art into a beat poem

     
    Last edited: Jul 29, 2023
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  6. Subterlabor
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    Subterlabor Wolfspider

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    I'm assuming you're talkin about a reverse glove? where tf did you find that? I haven't bought a rev/timeless glove under 30-35m ever. It's been expensive booming gloves trying to scroll 14 att's
     
  7. Subterlabor
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    Subterlabor Wolfspider

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    How does making everyone that is already having issues affording things (early-mid/early end game) more poor improve the affordability of the economy?
     
  8. fartsy
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    fartsy Skelosaurus

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    that was before multimage tot got nerfed bc pot was worth next to nothing
     
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  9. Subterlabor
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    Subterlabor Wolfspider

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    ahhh gotcha. I wish lol, I just boomed 2x timeless 1x reverse gloves on the first 1-3 slots -.-
     
  10. LeonardoJF
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    LeonardoJF Zakum

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    yes, reverse gloves.. a bit before the multimage nerf piece of times was for 100k ish
     
  11. xiaoyaoz
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    xiaoyaoz Balance Team Staff Member Balance Team

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    Funny thing is, in either case, the Balance Team (BT) will probably get shit on.
    Let me theorise 2 situations (I might be terribly wrong, but lmk)

    1) Make everyone richer! Let's say we raise meso drop rate by 10x, now everyone is able to farm 10x more money and be 10x richer to buy anything they want. What will happen? In the short term, cool, players can buy more stuff while sellers are still learning to adjust. But in the long term, slowly but almost surely, the cost of any valuable item will increase by 10x. Why? Because the value of an item didn't change, what changed is the value of meso. In terms of perception, players see prices increase > say there are massive inflation > call BT brainless for being unable to solve anything.

    2) Make everyone poorer! Let's say we do the opposite, decrease the meso drop rate by 10x, now everyone is farming 10x less money and be 10x poorer to buy anything they want. What will happen? In the short term, players realise they can't afford shit > call BT brainless for doing something obviously wrong. However, with the same logic as the previous case, the value of an item didn't change, what changed is the value of meso. Slowly but almost surely, the cost of any valuable item will decrease by 10x. But in this situation, prices doesn't matter much anymore since the damage is already being felt.

    Then one can also argue, why not just increase the item supply? which of course, this comes with the cost of power creep and making things easier to achieve. And the funny thing about that is, the goal post simply moves too, like if 12wa glove is used to be decent, now it will take a 14wa glove to be considered decent, then the same cycle repeats as stronger items requires stronger resources to achieve.

    Obviously these situations are simple extreme cases but something I found ironic that the chances of BT getting shit on is pretty high XD
    (not saying you are shitting on BT, just somehow your question inspired me to think about the situations)

    Forgive me if I sound like ranting XD
     
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  12. beegoratto
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    beegoratto Skelosaurus

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    The moving goal posts point is pretty good. At the end of the day people want to run with other people of similar strength to themselves, which means they’ll want to run with other players who commit a similar amount of time to the game as they do. This is something that will exist regardless of meso:fear scaling, and no matter how easy it is to get gear you’ll still see people tending to group with other people of similar strength.
     
  13. fartsy
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    fartsy Skelosaurus

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    if coin cost has been 3.3-3.4 for the past year, the cost to create perf weapons and the like hasn't changed. Take a year ago, bow prices went from 4k to above 4.5k coins since there were bidding wars. That demand isn't as strong anymore as people moved to the next big thing. 21 gloves went for 4.8k coins a year ago, now 4.6k is a hard sale, yet 23 gloves are up from 6.5k to like 7k coins. Capes and fs inflated even more, and the reason is because more people are bidding. If coin prices have been stable, then what other than demographics can describe the changes?

    I really don't see how mesos has to do with any of this
     
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  14. Tommygunner
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    Tommygunner Mixed Golem

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    Tldr: I think we should increase supply of 30% scrolls to help mid game players.

    I think the main problem is perceived inequality.

    I dont know whether good gear was easier to achieve years ago compared to now, but I'm sure many players feel this way, and it would feel unfair. But certainly, 30% scrolls are much more expensive now, and this does put a damper on getting decent equips. Furthermore, more expensive 30% scrolls mean demand for ws goes higher too since people will have to use 10%ws at an earlier point.

    Another perceived inequality may come from seeing rich players buying out the entire market for a certain item to resell at a higher price.

    There may be other inequalities people may see as an issue but i cant think of any.

    I do think perfect weapons/glove should be very difficult to get, since they're a good way to retain sweaty playerbase and also creating a sense of achievement for those players. For example, getting 3rd job back then was to me a very big achievement I was proud of. In current gms, I would not be proud of that.

    I also do agree perfect weapon is not necessary to enjoy the game. However, lowering 30% scrolls would help mid game players immensely.

    Demands for certain items are bound to go up endlessly, such as ws/cs and 30% scrolls. The only difference is that 30% scrolls are integral to mid game player economy.
     
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  15. fartsy
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    fartsy Skelosaurus

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    cheaper 30% scrolls just mean a higher price for weapons/armors and it's possible prices for scrolled items don't change. as for inequality, one can't want something without knowing of its existence
     
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  16. Luu
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    Luu Pac Pinky

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    It's also possible that the reason why particular supplies/scrolls went up is an unintended consequence of trying to restrict multi-client farming techniques. After all, those items have to come from somewhere.
     
  17. OP
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    Nachthexen
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    Nachthexen Orange Mushroom

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    nope
    I appreciate your opinions. It is truly reasonable. I'm going to follow your decision. Please consider this alternative.
     
  18. Tommygunner
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    Tommygunner Mixed Golem

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    Yes prices of weapons will certainly increase since scrolls and weapons are "complimentary goods". However since they are not perfect exclusive complimentary goods total price will still go down if we introduce more scroll supply.

    As for "one can't want something without knowing of its existence" I'm sorry to say I'm too dumb to see how that is relevant nor helpful to this discussion, especially since these new players are already complaining any argument they make are being shot down by old timers.
     
  19. xiaoyaoz
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    xiaoyaoz Balance Team Staff Member Balance Team

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    Whether it is mesos or coins, they are a way of communicating the value of goods and services, which is what a currency do. (Ofc coin is more than just a currency)
    Besides, mesos is still relevant for the early to late game players, end game player simply talk in coins.
     
  20. Pelinsu
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    Pelinsu Timer

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    I've written this somewhere else in the forum but my initial suggestion is to create somewhat optional and more meso sinks.
    We already have the potions and taxes, but if we'd have some cosmetic materials we could obtain later on, this might make stuff a bit easier.
    This of course is not the only solution to this problem, but as a side thing, the impact would be able to lift the pressure just a bit.

    One example might be an untradeable chair from x event which we can buy after the event ends from an NPC.
    Another example might also include the potions from demon tower event being sold for x amount of mesos.

    As long as the server is alive, the amount of total meso on players will continue to increase. That's why having additional values that we can turn our mesos into sounds like a logical option to me. That's what i've experienced from other MMOs.
    Feel free to elaborate of course.
     

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