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Suggestion to economy

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Nachthexen, Jul 28, 2023.

  1. Signature
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    Signature Stone Golem

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  2. TORONTOTOKYO
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    TORONTOTOKYO Windraider

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    See perf item smega, works hard, makes a good setup, plans well, achieves target within his comfortable means, be it sweating 12hrs a day for 6mths or juggling a job, committing 12hrs of game time a week for 2yrs.

    Back in 2017,2018, u could complete perf items by A) selling petri/skele leech, B) HT.
    Now in 2023, the same content wont give u shit.
     
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  3. Ainz
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    Ainz Zakum

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    So many I keep forgetting
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    Have you met NightzNightz
     
  4. kiwiz
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    kiwiz Skelegon

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    Back then, reaching to the point of selling petri/skele leech was a struggle itself.
    Now we get much cheaper MW20 and Gen30 thanks to optimised HT runs.

    Every success comes with sacrifices one way or another. Nothing's stopping me from taking no pay vacation days from work for 3 months, go on a budget and get sweaty if I'm truly thirsty for that perfect weapon.
     
    Last edited: Jul 28, 2023
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  5. Skuire
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    Skuire Nightshadow

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    tldr just pick a SE class
     
    Last edited: Jul 28, 2023
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  6. -ovv
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    -ovv Horntail

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    Play shadower, MM, or bucc. Nobody will even ask about your gear.
     
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  7. fartsy
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    fartsy Zakum

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    actually serious, it took much longer to get ws back then bc it was actually rare. the limitation was actual supply in the market. you should really see how many more ws are printed out nowadays instead of complaining. btw, i’m counting time as most efficient method/ws cost


    edit: i actually don't have a perf weapon for my attackers
     
    Last edited: Jul 28, 2023
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  8. akashsky
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    akashsky Horntail

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    If the demographics changed, the prices would change. More chaos and white scrolls are created in the server now than in the past. But the # of people wanting them is much, much higher now than in the past, so the prices have gone up accordingly. Casual players quit the server at a much higher rate than sweaty ones, so as time goes on the player base composition skews towards sweaty.

    Staff could resolve this problem somewhat via drastic coin drop buffs from bosses or drastic cs / ws buff on gacha, but this will cause irreversable meta shifts and power creep. As it stands right now, you can still get on end game boss runs without a perfect weapon, or any perfect items. If it is made easier, the expectations might shift and more people will be alienated as a result.
     
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  9. LiquidOoze
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    LiquidOoze Mixed Golem

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    They're buying a +7 red craven for 4k pcoins, you better be sweating fartsyfartsy right now.

    I remember not finishing my claw until I was 195 and went on countless runs with a 76 atk claw. Maybe times were different back then but the only thing that matters is your social capital as the once great flying/steel bird said before.
     
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  10. GDLee
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    GDLee Balance Team Staff Member Balance Team

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    I feel like most of the necessary points have already been made, but just to chime in with some overall (likely repetitive) thoughts:
    • ML economy has some faults - probably a statement no one will disagree with, but as people have stated the areas and manners through which it should be fixed lack meaningful consensus.
    • I don't think any "end-game" player that has responded to this thread has come out with guns blazing by saying that attaining perfect gear is easy. If anything, it's been the opposite. Aside from outlier cases where people craft impossible items (typically godly chaos scroll luck), most people that I know with perfect items have worked (1) intensely over a shorter period of time; or (2) still just as hard but not to the "no life" extent over a longer time horizon. I fit more in the latter category as having obtained my first perfect weapon after being on this server for over three years. If you want to complain and feel bitter about having less luck than those that RNG gods have smiled upon, that's a separate issue. But it's also an issue you'll have to face in real life.
    • When people tell newer players that it's unreasonable to expect the same gear progression or god luck as "end-game" players, I don't believe that it's coming from a place of entitlement or condescending perspective. As I stated, most people have to work very hard for their perfect gear, and perfect gear is in no way a requirement to enjoy this game to the fullest. Your reputation and social capital carries way more weight in this community than your gear at some point, and as long as you're using reasonably attainable gear (NOT perfect) and respect others, you will be able to join any content in the game. So when people tell you to lower your expectations, it's to help you save your own mental by avoiding a toxic cycle of irrational expectations and comparisons with others that earned their perfect gear.
     
    Last edited: Jul 28, 2023
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  11. fartsy
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    fartsy Zakum

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    i refuse to play without echo which i don't have
    i refuse to play without mw20/30 which i don't have
    i refuse to play without perf weapon which i don't have
    i refuse to play without 21+ gloves which i don't have
    i refuse to play without 15+ cape which i don't have
    i refuse to play without mules which i don't have
    i refuse to play
     
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  12. -ovv
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    -ovv Horntail

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    Why play the game when you can complain instead?
     
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  13. Kiaraaa
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    Kiaraaa Chronos

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    If you want perfect gears, then work for it!! nothing good comes easy :love:
     
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  14. Daydreamer
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    Daydreamer Headless Horseman

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    If I had to rate the problems with the server, WS prices would be fairly low on the list. Making a perfect equip is something you do when you have nothing else to spend mesos on, it doesn't really matter if it's super expensive because it is the endgame goal. CS prices being pegged to WS is a much bigger issue because it means most people don't ever even get the chance to CS a cape, for example.

    Bigger issues with the server economy IMO (speaking as a casual player) are the low supply of certain scrolls, high price of some skillbooks, centralization of the meta around certain maps and setups, and widening disparity in value between lower-tier equips and higher-tier equips.
     
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  15. LeonardoJF
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    LeonardoJF Horntail

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    I begin here from 0, with zero equips or funds, i leveled myself to lv 200 without get leeched, never bought leech, never leeched my self

    i dont own a crazy gear,
    but I made all possible contents in the game and in none I was far behind (obviously there are contents where class x is better than class y, and that someone with better gear will give more damage, but nothing so far)

    from february to now i made approximately mesos equivalent to 21-22 w/s or 2100-200 coins, i never farmed in multimage, boss in multi client, and i only had a few mules in the end game.

    my tip is: work hard if you want to reap the rewards
     
    Last edited: Jul 29, 2023
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  16. LeonardoJF
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    LeonardoJF Horntail

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    you got a nice point, theres some profitables boss that take less time than zak too
     
  17. LeonardoJF
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    LeonardoJF Horntail

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    and one more piece of advice, speaking for being someone who plays with a class where the items are a little lacking and I had to scroll myself (my shield, my bw), it's still better to do like kiwizkiwiz said
    and buy things ready.. perfect weapon is a relative thing, if you pass 7 30% in a row, that's it, it's over, now, if you don't pass a ws+10 in 50 attempts starting from +2, then it takes longer
     
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  18. Mirrors
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    Mirrors Game Moderator Staff Member Game Moderator

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    Honestly I know the economy is not perfect, but I think it's worth pointing out that despite pcoins being released a long time ago now, the price of pcoin has stayed relatively the same. It's been at 3.3-3.4m each for months. I think it's a good sign at least, that inflation isn't as awful as it could be, and although pcoin might inch towards 3.35-3.4m, now, the fact it's stayed relatively stable is pretty reassuring at least. I was expecting it to be like 5m by now if inflation was such big of an issue, so for now at least the supply and demand of ws/cs seems consistent.
     
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  19. Nise
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    Nise Supervisor Staff Member Supervisor Game Moderator

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    Throughout this post, I've seen the phrase "improve the economy" thrown around, but I'd say the underlying issue isn't actually about the health of the economy. While the OP suggested changes to the economy (eg. adjust meso generation / meso sinkage) as a solution the the issue he identified, the underlying issue seems to be be more about game progression.
    • How to make money
    • How to afford gear upgrades
    • The rate at which these upgrades take
    For the value of money to be higher than it is currently, our economy (I believe) would need to greatly deflate. Imagine we currently have 1 trillion mesos on the server. Just because we slow down the printing of money of alone, doesn't somehow erase the 1 trillion mesos that are already on the server.
    1. Scenario 1. Meso generation is slowed down to a point where net growth is still positive. Value of meso will still, over time, depreciate as the overall money supply would continue to grow. This itself isn't a bad thing, since prices will still adjust to supply vs. demand. But at the same time, it doesn't change much from the status quo.
    2. Scenario 2. Meso generation is slowed down to a point where meso sinks bring net growth to 0. This isn't really possible. Players come and go. Players get banned, extracting mesos from the economy. Players continuously use meso sinks (eg. potions). On the flipside, you'll always have people trying to generate more mesos. That's just how the game is designed. Getting to 0 is simply not viable.
    3. Scenario 3. Meso generation is slowed down to a point where meso sinks bring net growth to negative. A deflationary economy is quite dangerous. If we could control how slow it deflated perhaps that would be fine. But like scenario 2, there are way too many unknown variables to keep track. If the economy reaches this state, you'd also need to consider the impact on newer players. I'm assuming that to reach this point you'd need to have slowed down generation by an insane amount and/or added new meso sinks that force the economy into a deflationary state. Imagine a new player's experience from Level 1. Until 120 they might be okay, but that Level 120 onwards grind would end up bankrupting them. They won't be able to afford potions and they'd barely get by. (Once again assuming mega slow down on generation from natural grinding + implementation of harsher meso sinks).
    Increase alternative ways to get coins and money is the tldr for this suggestion. Quests are an fickle things to balance. I'd assume for this type of method to be viable (and not just a forgotten piece of content), the following should be true:
    • Quest reward >= Time spent completing quest * hourly expected meso gain from leeching/farming/bossing
    If the time time spent is too low, then you'd have people just spam complete quests and flood the economy with money. If you add in a time-gating (like daily or weekly turn in), you'd just have mule-central. This could be avoided if you make the required time investment higher or the quest more difficult. But how do you achieve that in MapleStory... Higher number kill quests? More walking from map to map?

    It is definitely possible to balance these things, but it is something that would need more fleshing out if this is a route that players want to go.

    At this point, why not just increase the amount of WS/CS that can be redeemed per 100 coins? It would be a less market intrusive way to achieve similar results to the goal you'd wanna achieve I think.
     
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  20. fartsy
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    fartsy Zakum

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    but money supply has no long term effect on real gdp rather the problem is more about demographics, scarcity, and inequality
     
    Last edited: Jul 29, 2023
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