Maplelegends is hostile to new and unestablished players.

L>the actual context of this SS, not just the part your honey decided to screenshot and crop to you

I personally don't see how this server is toxic at all, i don't understand how end game guild tension (like the project/demure stuff Manny was kindly showing us all) is an issue lol. The maplestory i remember was full of elitist guild vs guild ksing drama (which has been deemed against ToS regardless of the fact that ML is supposedly a nostalgic server....but i won't get into that rabbit hole) and let me emphasize this word: COMPETITION. If people join a 2x challenging nostalgic server and expect everyone to have an noncompetitive, super friendly lets all hold hands and suck each other's toes server then i need to know which maplestory you played back then....cos it clearly wasn't Neckson's.

In regards to the OP's post about this server being unfriendly towards new players, that cannot be fixed even with better pq rates, the meta revolves around hp washing (which is way too late to change or "fix") and even without it, leeching is still the most efficient way to make exp/meso. I personally absolutely detest leeching, and i'm that kind of elitist that rolls my eyes seeing people leech for levels, but sadly that's just how maplestory was around this version; not just MapleLegends. If people join and find out they don't like what this version of maplestory has to offer (aka leech2win) then they're better off looking for a new server with a higher version. Playing on my DK alt a while back made me realise how disgusting leech influence was; being able to find a priest to grind with at himes was like winning the lottery and it was beyond demotivating when you see those priests opting to buy leech instead. - So i ended up quitting, pretty simple.

Hp washing should not change, mage meta will not change; any changes that should have been implemented should have been done 3years ago, not 3years later after hundreds of players have gone through all the "hard work" of reaching their end game goals and the entire economy runs on mage leech income. GMs have done their best to make the experience less leech2win (vote abusing nx gach for leech meso/funds is completely nerfed) as well as a few grinding maps have had their spawn nerfed due to stupid meso income etc but in the end of the day; this is what v6x maplestory was all about so you either feel it or you don't. Changing pq rates will change nothing since it doesn't make the hp washing/exp and meso income from leeching any less effective and time efficient.

 

Well there already exists other avenues for players to play the game other than leeching as Nise pointed out. The problem is that players who want to PQ are unable to find members easily and raising PQ exp rates isn't necessarily going to convince the majority of players, which at this point I would assume just prefer leeching due to its simplistic and more efficient route. People who want to play inefficiently have already pointed out that they will and have done so, while those who want to leech will do just that.

 

I certainly would like to see this server thrive again. Still voting everyday waiting for a significant change but the problems still remain in place due to a multitude of reasons.

To list significant issues:
- The leech game
- Unpopular opinions being antagonized like being shot on sight
- Inability to play whatever the hell you like because of washes (you can say all you like that you don't "need" it and nobody pushes it but throughout my time playing I've seen many low leveled and high leveled people just shat on and excluded out of circles for not washing. We've tried our best to accommodate these players that were just booted instantly into our boss runs)
- Stagnating end game (After horntail there really isn't anything else to do besides hoe in the fm or hang with friends. Those friends will eventually leave after getting bored of horntail)
- This passive aggressive atmosphere that exudes from the population. You won't believe the amount of shit we had to bear while we were trying to boss competitively. Also talking shit behind people's back and pretending you didn't say anything is rampant here.
- This serious disconnect between the staff, new players, and old players. This seriously feels like a dbz beam battle and I feel sorry for the staff because they can't please either side because of this entitled attitude. (Not everyone, not calling people out but just saying a point). This server is having an identity crisis because all sides are deadlocked and people are holding onto past grudges and refuse to budge for change.

Despite all of this, I still love this server and wish for something to change so that it has some new life breathed into it. I wish that something drastic would change alas after a year of waiting, I still don't see any signs of change and still await eagerly.

These are just my 2 cents though (or however much this thesis is worth)

 

When was the last time that nightshadows/himes are so popular that people are training there? Since night lord/bishops are so popular in this game why aren't the maps full ever? And you're saying that people snipe newts from the side, as someone who has played this server I can attest that I have never seen anyone snipe newts or even train at newts before. You also mention Party Quest being whether PQ exp is too bad or if its lack of players, and its probably because of terrible PQ exp. I have been on this server long enough to know that nobody cares about OPQ or PPQ exp. You're lucky with the addition of monster books some people even go do those pqs or do ppq for the chair. And even if there are a low player base, who does it hurt that you buff exps further?

 

Also everyone on this server keeps on echoing the same phrase that 'you don't need to wash, you have hp rings', how many of you have non-washed characters since you don't need to wash.

 

GM nise what do u think is causing ML not getting enough new players? genuinely curious

 

Firstly, I want to address that the first 3 questions you present all have to do with "personal choice".

You have the option to either quit your character halfway or just keep playing for fun. If you planned for end game then why didn't you do research and plan? You decided late? Well now you know and you can plan a better and efficient way of making a new character. There is always something you can learn from your lack of knowledge because that is how ALL games are. Literally any game punishes you for not knowing what certain mechanics are and of course that punishment's harshness vary from people to people but that is how it is.

No one forces you to make another character before making your "main" character. That is literally YOUR choice your aren't FORCED. You think its forced because otherwise it'd be the most difficult grind but that is clearly just another obstacle for you to deal with and adapt to. I've had friends remake 3 times because they didn't know or they messed up and now they learned and are glad that they remake. They actually enjoy playing their class regardless of remaking because they didn't care to rush everything and took their time. So why don't people adopt a better mindset and think that "oh okay this sucks but there is this specific workaround I can easily do and benefit me in the future"? Why sit in the same mind set of "I can't do what I want and I don't want to do that so therefore things should be fixed to help cater my issue"?

As for leeching no one forces it upon YOU. Let me tell it to you straight leeching is for lazy people. YOU are being a literal sheep assuming that leeching is the only "efficient" way to level. There are plenty of benefits that come from grinding alone, some examples are: finding equips, scrolls and gachapon tickets that may be used to help YOU for end game content! In fact you could sell all of that AND buy yourself leech or spend it on future potential gear LOL...

What game puts you behind a wall that prevents you from getting stronger? Literally every game does. You don't get how? Easy. Lets start off with gacha phone games! You literally can just play the game F2P and slowly unlock things or simply just straight up be P2P and unlock everything from the get go. Any other mmorpg such as WoW, GW2, Runescape etc forces you to put in the TIME and HOURS to unlocking the next raid or dungeon to get that new gear. Why is it that you should be able to do EVERYTHING asap? That literally makes no sense and would literally kill any game that allows you to do so.

Edit:Quit mixing personal choice as the reason why you can't progress in the game when its clearly YOUR choice to halt progression. Don't blame the game for not letting you progress when YOU choose not to do the any other methods.

Have you played a game with perfect balance on mechanics? Sorry trick question because there isn't one. Why should all broken mechanics be fixed? All game developers try to achieve "perfect imbalance". Look at LoL there is always an imbalance, they nerf and buff things which causes other things to be imbalanced. Now if we did that here for "HP washing" and balanced that, what is going to be next? Nerf NLs for high dps? Then buff Buccs to be #1 dps? the more and more you "fix" this broken mechanic the more and more we deter from the v62 that this server is proud of. You can think of Maple as Chess, that it has been around for so long that there are already established roles/strategies.(of course its not 100% the same but just apply the concept since both games are already "thought out thoroughly") So please learn to adapt and find workarounds and most importantly look at the brighter side.

I'm fine with PQ buffs but the fact that he doesn't do them because its not "efficient" is absurd and stupid. I actually want some PQs to be buffed. And like I said it should take time to make a party for a party quest. I played Vanilla WoW and had 40 man raids tell me how that is not hard to organize LOL... Also why not spend time? It lets you socialize and meet people. If you can't get a party going then you find an alternative thing to do aka. Grinding or Leeching. And again those are all PERSONAL choice YOU choose to do that so therefore you should expect certain outcomes. Everything takes time and obviously some people don't have as much time as others, but they shouldn't expect things to be given the same rewards as someone who put in the hours.

Why does it matter about who voices their opinions on the forums? I'm barely a 5-6 month old player (total months that I've actually been active for). Why would I care if someone disagrees with me when I can agree to disagree. LOL In fact I bet you 100% people read about all the "bad experience" from other players and get turned off by that. All because majority of those players don't seem to understand that life is 90% of how YOU react. Two people can have the same experience of someone being an asshole to them. One can take it up the ass and quit while the other will simply ignore and move on and have fun. So really what is your point? This whole thread is about someone's experience and I can clearly see what he is addressing. Obviously I'm going to make a comment about things that I don't agree with while leaving out or simply just agreeing about the things I do.

Also quit saying "everyone" because frankly it is not EVERYONE.

 

That's called "Bad game design" and it could be fixed. Plan better? A lot of players didn't even know HP Washing was a thing, got to know way later and got screwed for months trying to fix a character.

"Literally any game punishes you for not knowing what certain mechanics are" - Sure! But you don't need to REMAKE a character that you've been working on for months.
Good for your friends that remade their characters and had fun doing it. Some (if not MOST) people find it extremely frustrating and have quit the game because of it.
You're defending a terrible game design just because you don't have a big problem with it.

 

I'm not defending if I'm pointing out that these imbalances are needed. For example in WoW: Is it fair for a Mage or a Hunter or a Warlock to tank more or if not the SAME amount of damage and output 3x as much than the Warrior or Paladin Tank? Because frankly you are pretty much saying that and HP washing ALLOWS you to do what I just said. So do you prefer zero washing and having all NLs and BMs forced to level to 185+ just to HT w/o washing because all washing is gone?

He chose to react to that differently while YOU and perhaps "MOST" people chose to react to it differently. So maybe you should reconsider how things could have been if you didn't think so negatively.

 

I have never played WoW but aren't all classes able to do all or at least most raids as long as they're not soaking up the damage? I'd rather have NLs and BMs being easily killed but not one-shotted and having to actually pay attention to the snorefest that is a boss run.
Also, your example is terrible since Warriors deal way more damage than NLs and BMs, when they're able to multi-target.

MapleStory is indeed a very imbalanced game, and it also has a lot of other issues, but those issues are known for literally over a decade and could be improved on a private server. Some other servers are handling the HP Washing issue correctly, while Legends failed completely on this regard.

 

Exactly. The game pretty much forces you into the meta that is creating a mage first, then grinding a lot, possibly selling leech and then, finally, creating the class you really wanted to play.
Yeah, @itsjaheezy is technically correct that you're not FORCED to follow this path, but if you really want to enjoy all the content that the server has to offer without spending months while being crippled, you need to follow the meta.

 

In my opinion the most important factor in determining whether or not a new player will continue to play ML long term is their appetite for grinding. No matter what route you take, it is practically impossible to progress to the endgame without many hours of mind numbing repetitive grinding. For practical reasons, this will not change anytime soon. New players who come to ML for nostalgia but have no appetite for grinding will not stay for long. That is not to say they aren't welcome or can't enjoy the game, but these kinds of players will not become regular players who reach the endgame. I don't think any amount small tweeks will change this fact.

Now if the goal is to increase retention rate of new players, I don't think we should bother trying to keep the group of pure nostalgia driven players that will leave quickly no matter what. Instead it is probably more relevant to consider the players that come for the nostalgia but are willing to put some work into progressing in the game. In particular, I think it is important to quickly inform these new players about the important mechanics of the game. In particular, new players should be quickly informed about the two following things.

1. The mage meta
A very common piece of advise for new players is to make a mage(by mage I'm including bishop) first. The reason for this is that mages are able to train quickly and independently without having to worry about HP washing. Furthermore, having an endgame mage opens up a lot of doors. It gives you a reliable way to make money via leech (or even just picking up stuff tbh) and gives you the option of leeching later on. Of course there are plenty of veteran players that did not make a mage first and doing so is not completely necessary, new players should know about the advantages of making a mage first.

2.HP washing
In my opinion, HP washing is not that scary if you know about it from the beginning. If the goal is to wash to minimum hp for HT at level ~160, it really isn't that difficult if you plan it from an early level(even without int gear). New players should be informed about the requirements and benefits for HP washing as soon as possible so that they can plan out their character.

Now I understand that immediately handing this information off to new players is a trade off. In fact, I know that there is a maple tip that specifically says "don't overwhelm new players with hp washing". While these two pieces of information would help players who decide to stick around, overwhelming new players with all of these details could ruin their nostalgic view of old Maplestory and damage the "nostalgia hook". However if the goal is to produce longtime players, I think it is still worth it. Instead of pretending that HP washing/leeching doesn't exist or that it "optional", we should acknowledge its existence and guide new players on how to deal with it. Sure, not telling new players about HP washing early might hook some more nostalgia driven players in, but there is no point if they just quit at level 50 after learning that their account is messed up.

Instead of a dramatic overhaul of our entire game, it is more practical to inform new players about the nuances and help them avoid the "pitfalls" in the game.

 

Back when I was in the 2digit - early 3 digit leveling range, actually, mobbing classes FLOODED maps like Gallos. I'd see the very iconic DK+Priest roar training duos, I'd duo on my I/L at gallos until I was 120 with another priest, sometimes even Hermits and another class together.

Just because the meta for playstyle has changed doesn't mean that the server basis in itself has a burning need to change early game difficulty plateaus to match along side it. The game is not by any means UNPLAYABLE, is it not? Difficult, yes. But that's how grind-based games go.

I actually find that difficult to believe that nobody cares about OPQ/PPQ exp. My guild is constantly asking around if people would like to OPQ, and I'm almost certain its solely for EXP gain.

Now you ask

if I wanna play devil's advocate: it shifts a lot in the economy:
If you manage to set a comparable exp gain from leeching to PQing, or one that benefits PQing even more, then that hurts the leech market. Leech prices have already decked quite a bit outside of 1 hitting prices.
Micro changes in the game affect a lot more than the face value that you only see at first.