Mannies, oh why mannies...

I have said my piece and tried to speak from newer players' perspective. Manns was OP but the nerf was overkill.
I'll shut up on this note:

Stop calling people 'lazy' for wanting an optimal solo grind. Keep the judgement to yourself and go back to your party grind.

 

Shout outs to my fellow mannequin summon farming comrades Akash and JDPJHC for making this awesome thread possible.

Spoiler: Pog text to speech content

I know I am the one that everyone would love to bash about things because they think I am small brained but hey, someone has to be the one to start these topics and get the ball rolling. I don't mind it is me haha.

First thing is first, nerfing this spot KILLS (I mean literally I will never go to mannies again) Warrior classes. I don't know if this spot was brought back to life but I think it is still nerfed, if it was ignore this forum post and remove it haha. But man why you guys trying to hurt warriors? WE SLOW. I mean compare us to any other class and even the BM/MM are faster. Warriors have always been hurting in terms of speed, and I don't have to compare all the classes to warriors for everyone to understand just how slow they are. Nerfing this spot made it a nightmare for us. The only kinda good spot to farm now is 75-85 wolf spiders. Which honestly I can't remember how much the exp difference is but it was a HUGE amount so I am not worried about that. It is the meso part, compare meso/hour from mobs and equips alone to other classes and you will see a huge difference. A mage or hermit at ulu2 or man any map is now 100x better than what I can do until I can effectively one/two shot himes and ulu2. At later game this isn't a big deal as much because DK's get strong enough to clear fast on other maps. Until that we can't farm effectively unless we have mannies. This spot could give a DK an HONEST living but we broke now. FeelsBrokeMan....

I am not going to waste time making another character just to farm mannies or other maps effectively, I don't have that time. I do have time to pop on and grind for a bit or farm. But now the only places I can go to is ulu2 and himes, which are bad meso makers for me until I can kill effectively. Let alone the avaliablity of those channels are hard. But Mannies you got like 4 different maps and all of them are great for warriors to farm mesos.

As always: This is an opinion, obviously I made this post just to talk, and hopefully people can talk respectively and be mature about it.
Best first sentence ever.

Can u rejoin discord please. I always enjoyed talking to u.

Also where are the streams lately?

Nice post btw, can't disagree with anything.
The people on discord 1/10 TBH posting my personal information (even the admins) kind of sad they acted that way. I do stream at twitch.tv/thewayman still but it is rare TBH I just hardly have time anymore, rn I am dealing with cvoid-19 its hurting the company I work for so we trying to stay a float. I think a lot of people think a change was needed but for me I felt it was the wrong "type" of nerf. Maybe a exp nerf was okay but not changing the mob completely.
Didn't u have like 3 jobs?

I hope you stay safe buddy!
You're youtube video's inspired me allot!

Consider joining discord, theres a #noleech-nowash channel now, filled with all the cool ppl.

The reason cited for this change was that a handful of people were summon farming, events made it OP, and that people spent far too much time here.
Sure it fixed all of these three issues but now warriors at lvl 70-~140 can't earn mesos at a somewhat decent rate.

I mean you can treat the symptoms but what about the core problem i.e. summon farming, balancing the MAIN GAME around events, and some maps simply being vastly superior to others (and that it is impossible to be non-meta in any game; you're simply pushing the meta around).
LOL, just returned from a three-month break and found out from my own experience with this nerf, just led me to leave my warrior and start another character.
Heres your alternative money maker, also anyone who recommends mannies to a warrior at this point is clearly a moron. From personal experience i can also say the place is hot garbage for exp.
They want everyone to make a mage i guess

My then levle 78 warrior was getting 4.8m eph in CDs compared to the 5.8h he was getting in kid mannies. So there's that.
no offense... but thats kindve on you. just because mannies got nerfed doesnt mean "warriors have no grinding spot now" theres always been alternatives people just wanted the easier/lazier way (of course the drops/mesos was good, but lets be honest how broken was it lol) , This is why people grind at Ghost ship, cuz its easy/lazy when theres alot better/faster spots
Please share the faster / better spots than ghost ship 2 for level range of 40-80.
Please don't share the faster/better spots on forums. Make people do their own research and share organically within the game community instead. The Legends library is already available for anybody to go and parse through.
Dude ... this is a game. I don't understand the obsession some people in this community have for making things as tedious and unpleasant as possible. Mannies was incredible, without a doubt, but the lvls 70 - 120 are also incredible ... incredibly tedious. Without leech and mannies, I wouldn't have gotten to 4th job on my first character simply because of how boring those levels are. No quests, no pq's, relatively slow exp gain at 100+, and all the alternative maps are dominated by leechers.

On top of that, most maps besides mannies simply make you no money. You get just enough to buy pots, but unless you get a few lucky gachas you probably aren't going to buy any equips or scrolls for them. It's a pretty demoralizing phase of the maple journey, so to speak. The game's already hard enough, most people quit after 120 or even before then, so I'm not sure why we must make it even more insufferable.
Welcome to nostalgia. Maplestory back then was tedious, and you're playing with 2x exp.
There was also plenty of 4x with the NX 2x during 2x exp events. Multiplied into HS.. just saying.

True, but these happened rarely during short periods of time. For example, they maybe hosted like 1 4hr session once in a while. If you count the bonus exp from events, and multiply it over the long period of time that events are available, I would say that maplelegends more than matches it.
It's called improving on a formula. AP resets also cost real money, yet Maplelegends uses vote nx instead. V62 was also host to numerous bugs and balance issues, and yet we're fixing those so all the classes are equally viable. I also don't remember leeching/ap resets/hp washing as being all that nostalgic either, since the vast majority of us never did either, and yet both are core aspects of ML.

Nostalgia is just a quick explanation for why people find maplestory v62 fun. Nobody plays a game just because it's nostalgic; they play because it's enjoyable. If nostalgia was the be all end all for everything, we would still be using dial-up and CRT monitors. 100% nostalgia. Not at all fun.
I find plenty of new people doing quests for the nostalgia. The content is available for that.

But as Xydan has pointed nostalgia is not the only core of ML.
It's the people, the community. It's the people I've bonded with that have kept me in the game. How did I bond with these people? Certainly NOT by grinding at non-meta maps or "difficult maps." For me, I bonded with them through boss runs - others by chatting away in the FM.

I am able to do boss runs now because I grinded at meta maps. Grinding is not pleasant at all. I just wanted to get it over and done with. But mannequins made that less tedious with the earring int 10s and the weapon drops as it felt like real progress. We should not be calling players 'lazy' for wanting to go over those phases as soon as possible and saving up for their weapons.

Players who want to take their time and enjoy the content, though the rewards are meager, will do and have done so. I love collecting cards, and that isn't part of the nostalgia content.

Can we please stop pushing for a certain way of playing?
I completely agree with you, my first character was a warrior, and this Mannies map was basically my refuge, my place of comfort, lol, I was able to train effectively, while at the same time making enough meso to finance my character. I wanted to make the character I want, instead of focusing on other things that demoralize new players, such as washing or leeching. I do not really like magicians, and people came up to me and told me first to make a magician, why? so that I can sell leech to finance other characters. The point is to make the character I want and have fun with it. Mannies was a map that allowed me to do what I wanted, trying to gain 4th job efficiently, grinding on my own, while others kept telling me to buy leech or make a mage instead. I completely forgot that this server is basically a leech simulation, it has turned into a game without even being near the keyboard and doing something else... While encourgaing others to do the same. Shame!

Sorry but I'm a librarian.
I've explored most of the maps available for people for lvl 1 to 120.

Truckers -> MP3/GS2/GS5 is the only explainable way of meta training (mages), as in get cash and exp at the same times for LVL 40-80.

I've tried Roids, they're not bad, but they require a better EXP/HP ratio, because Slimy or Pac Pinky are just too much better.
Forest of Golems is garbage, yes it's doable, but you won't love your life after training there 50-60.
Galloperas at higher lvl, but yeah, another map that needs some kind of

https://forum.maplelegends.com/index.php?threads/training-guide.14242/
Here's a guide from 2017, this is literally pre-mannies discovery.
Have fun grinding with those maps and not wanting to kys
There are maps out there that break the mold. People are just not used to formulating multiple attacker parties with HS. This is why mannes was heavily favored - it requires no party and no HS to get leech-equivalent exp gains. There are other maps out there that can yield a higher eph as long as you have multiple attackers.

The problem with mannes was they gave out way too high of an Exp/HP ratio, which allowed for this solo play. Because of this, you can clear most of the mobs each spawn while solo. There are maps out there that spawn more mobs that you wouldn't be able to clear solo, but with a party, you could.


Windraiders are better than ghost ship for almost all classes with mobbing abilities except I/Ls, and mannequins are if anything much better for single target attackers like assassins and bandits now. CDs is also good at the higher end of the range.

Imagine a Windraider party with a rotating HS.
Each attacker takes one platform and focuses killing all of their spawn before the next spawn arrives. In theory, windraiders would yield a much higher output of exp per spawn than mannes, assuming everybody is clearing their platform each wave. A priest rotates and HS's each platform during rebuffs, or everybody can come together on one central point and rebuff that way.

This is how we used to run grind parties in GMS bera back when Ludi was all we had.

But we won't, because
A) the population isn't big enough to guarantee a full party anywhere at your convenience unlike GMS
B) priests are training at gs2, then hime, then buying leech to 120

Why must we imagine these fantastic hypotheticals when reality is far more cruel. I can't even find a priest for hime consistently, let alone one willing to do windraiders along w/ 3 other attackers.

1. 1342 people are online right now. You get free smegas to formulate parties, and there is a discord channels to seek parties. Learn to utilize your tools. Add people who are your level range to your buddy list. You guys are complaining that there is no community in grinding. This is because you guys are confined in the meta and are not looking to take the steps to form a new one. See an issue? Go fix it with what you've got instead of complaining.
2. Priests wouldn't be training at gs2 or himes if they were getting invited to these types of exp-efficient parties. It wasn't uncommon to see mid-70 priests getting invited to parties, and if you have a community of people to depend on (guild, buddy list, discord) to grind with, then it'll set itself organically.


There's so much contradicting irony here. People complaining about no community in grinding, yet are too lazy to create a grinding community. People asking for advice on what other maps would be viable and then saying "that'll never happen."

Right.
But why are we pushing for party grinding????? It’s there for people who want to make use of it but why punish people for wanting to solo grind? Like I said before in my post, bossing is what we grind for. Most people don’t grind for the sake of grinding. And most bosses are usually not done solo.

It sounds like you miss the nostalgia of party grinding but stop pushing others to play like you want them to!

You make it sound like summoning 4 attackers and a priest with HS is as easy as ordering a pizza. I suppose if I don't have a large buddy list, or if I don't belong to a large guild, or if I play at odd hours, I might as well not train. Furthermore, forcing everyone to party grind further emphasizes the need for HS to grind effectively. Solo-play is already hard enough - manni was one of the few effective solo maps - I'm not sure why we need to make it even harder.

And if the point of nerfing mannequins was actually about promoting party play, then why are archmages and leeching still a thing? The very definition of a mage/bishop and leeching is to completely circumvent any kind of grinding, party or otherwise. Nerfing mannies and leaving leeching untouched is like complaining about poor people "taking all the tax money" as the uber wealthy hoover up every last dollar from their worker serfs.
Have you tried it yet?
Just a thought I've had: Pre-nerf mannies were like the Maple Weapon of training maps - way better than vanilla weapons and seemingly broken by comparison, but not unhealthy because they benefit new, upcoming players far more than old. Legends could use more maps like that.
No. Because I don't have four attackers and an HS I can call on a moments notice. Does that mean I shouldn't play the game?
They were nerfed to not have aggro so that people couldn't afk summon farm. The EXP/HP ratio is still the same. The people who are complaining in this thread are complaining that it got slowed down b/c now they now have to walk over to the mob to kill it.
Except you can formulate a 6-12 man bossing party, right?

Have you ever played a warrior before? Literally the "walking to the mob to kill it" part is what makes warriors so tedious/slow to grind. I suppose if we made genesis/meteor/blizzard melee abilities, you would argue that they are "still the same".

I didn't realise that logging in to grind for some exp required the same approach/effort as creating a 12-man bossing party for Horntail. You would think that the rewards would be commensurate then, except grinding at mannies never gave me a skillbook or pendant.

I have two heroes, a paladin, and a DK. Guess what - Maplestory has a cool feature called party buffs - and these buffs sometimes speed you up so you don't run to your mobs so slowly. You can also scroll speed shoes if you're that slow.

Yeah, the rewards for grinding efficiently is leveling up so that you can get to your bosser levels faster. That's the reward. You guys are literally complaining that the nerf to Mannes slowed your eph down and are rejecting any suggestion given to you saying it's too difficult. There are other viable solo grind maps out there. You guys just haven't spent the time to even look.

People aren't rejecting suggestions. People who can afford to have moved to CDs as suggested. I personally am saying that just because you have people you can reliably call on to grind with does not mean you should expect everyone else, especially the new players, to do so too.

Guess what nerfing mannequins has done? It eliminated summon farming. And warriors are scrambling to save up for leech more. SO much for the intention of having them explore and grind at non-meta maps.

The option for party grinding is there. But stop trying to push people towards that!

Be honest. Did you grind at non-meta maps to 120? Or bought leech?
I did not buy leech but I put in 3-4 hrs per level at manns. Let's not be hypocritical. Preaching something and doing something else.

Ironic ... weren't you also the one that said "make people do their own research?" So what is your suggestion then, besides "options exist, but go look for it yourself!"

I've bought maybe 2 hours of leech in my entire time here on this server. That was for level 119-120 on my first hero.
All of my other characters have been self-trained or self-leeched. I don't believe in buying leech, but I'm not opposed to selling it.

What Experience per Hour do you guys think is acceptable for a warrior at lvls 80-110?
I just ran a quick test on a somewhat non-meta map with EPM 5 on an unfunded lvl 109 DK. No HS. 3.8m EPH, or 23% an hour. That's about 4 hours a level at level 109. WITHOUT HS.

I wasn't even clearing 1/4th of the map's spawn at each respawn time. It'd be much, MUCH higher with a priest and 2 or 3 attackers.

The funnier part is that while I was testing this, I ran into several people grinding there already. What this tells me is that while the in-game community seems to have somewhat figured it out already, it looks those who come on forums to complain about 'inefficiency' or 'unfair nerfs' are the ones who probably haven't tried very hard to figure it out themselves.

I don't wish to hand people things on a silver spoon.

XydanXydan - reread my post. I offered viable strategies to getting that exp efficiency in those 'hell' levels without having to buy leech and without breaking your bank. It's up to you guys to figure it out by diving into the community and asking around.

Edit:

So I was curious as to what the numbers would look like with party buffs, but I didn't want to bring all my mules over so I tested my lvl 109 DK at the same aforementioned map with FM HS and got 4.9m EPH over an EPM 5.
This is with FM HS - meaning no exp mule in the same map to give party bonus.

Edit2:

Nvm it's even better than I thought. 5.4m eph
If you're telling them to "ask around", you should probably answer them when they are asking you. I have no horse in this race, but saying some mystery alternatives exist, and then trying to hide it when asked is kinda toxic.


Did you ask them if they would buy leech after they finish saving mesos up?
Do you think they will stick around for the next 100 hours or so grinding at that map to reach 4th job? And grind some more till at least 130? A few might. Just because you saw them there for 5 minutes doesn’t prove anything.

The reason I’m vocal about this is because people are judging people for being ‘lazy’ for wanting to have the optimal grinding experience.

Like, how did you even decide what qualifies as ‘lazy’? Less than 3 hours of grinding is easy? Or 4 hours? Or maybe 8? Why do you even care if they level fast? However I do care if new players aren’t able to feel tangible progress and that negatively affects their grinding experience. I’m not affected by this change but I’m not going to sit on my hypothetical throne and say “but this is actually very efficient - too bad you guys are too lazy to bother to try and find people to achieve that.” Because it is an ideal situation. Not practical at all - especially amongst newer players.

I do talk to people in game and share info when asked, but I’m not keen on spreading information on a forum where people can simply search for the best or most viable option. That’s what leads to stagnant meta maps and then we run back into the same problem.

This is beyond silly. For all we know, you leeched yourself for 5 mins and are now trying to pawn it off as some incredible alternative map.

And what's especially galling is that you assume I didn't ask around to see what alternatives are available. It's the same kind of arrogance and self-absorption that makes this community insufferable at times. If it's not done my way, it's not good. And if I know a better option exists, I won't share because only the worthy should be privileged. If you like solo grinding then too bad because the only right way to play is with a party.

Maplestory is honestly not worth dealing with people with some bizarre concept of what fun should be, and how best to gate-keep the game.

Jesus Fangblade Christ would you get a load of this entitlement? And the mental gymnastics one must go through to reach that Omega Sector- level tinfoil conspiracy.

Sure, by all means, continue to complain that the nerf to Mannequins was unjustified and damning to the warrior class. Continue to slave away at your outdated google-searched forum guide to ‘optimal’ maps while shaking your fists at the ‘elite and oppressive’ class.

Because yes of course, I spent 20 minutes to move my character to a map to fabricate a test and screenshot my EPH in order to lead you guys on a wild goose chase for a mythical map that yields x amount of experience comparable to Mannes pre-nerf.


21 minutes if we include censoring the location. Tests are meaningless if results cannot be reproduced by a 3rd party. Though I guess they have your igns so they can msg you. I hear you answer them if it's in gameSeemsGood

I think there's a lot going on here, so im just dropping my 2 cents.

There's a lot of unfairness, and also points to touch down and it's not all around the warriors themselves.

Long wall
The way Maplelegends is built atm is seriously damaging for a lot of classes and here's why
Mannequins were an amazing training spot for warriors , or anyone really the exp per hour ratio would be around 5m/h that's basically better than leech itself, especially for the level range it would get suggested at which was like 60-120, and yes i agree it makes me happy that people are grinding than leeching, i would've prefered that way myself

But it was also extremely broken, if i had to put it in a comparison
Leeching would be someone cooking the food, chewing it for you and mouthfeeding you
Training normally would be , you cook your own food and sit down and eat it like normal

Mannies was basically the comparison of someone cooking for you and doing the airplane for you

Because even if you ''grinded'' you didnt spend any meso other than potions, unlike leech, in fact with the valuable drops that you got, farming mesos was insane as well as exp, god it was just too good for its own good, and sadly every other map you had to choose between EXP or mesos

The mobs would basically lure themselves for you to just mash your attack key for 5-6 seconds then move to the next platform.

Other classes comparison, especially Mages and Ranged classes (Sin, Bowman, Corsairs) (at least the non washing ones)
Fire poison are just fucking broken, who decides that poison would get this insane, yes it existed back then , but Fire poisons would go at death master teddies which is like 2k exp not monks at china which is like 15k per mob.

''People complain if popular spot 2 good why not nerf GS2''
I admit GS2 is also one of the odd spots out there giving how is so easy to level up for like 30 levels basically
but...Slimys give no drops whatsoever, literally wand 60% and gach are the valuable things it has to offer, because it had a balance of shit level 40 drops and the rare level 80, it was profitable yes but definitely not too out there.
Warriors are you COMPLAINING? you had fucking 6million exp per hour at like level 60. AND You can survive!
Ranged classes could hardly go there because they would get 2 hit and die, it's risk reward maybe but come on, you are privileged
I think archers had Typhoons as the option to grind but that burns just as many pots and they drop NOTHING AT ALL
What about newtie sniping ,i've been there for an hour and i get like 3.5-4m exp per hour which is not even as good
and since you kill like 10 mobs per minute, 10 MOBS PER MINUTE that's literally no gacha drops and almost no valuable drops either, and almost that's the case for other maps. You either go full cash or full exp, so many classes had none

And they cant go Mannies cuz the 1500 damage on touch is a big oof for anyone who cant tank

You say you became unplayable? Bruh you still got ghost ship, you still got Himes, there's many options out there for you.
At least you guys are strong, you say you have to WALK? ranged classes cant even attack when put in melee, for you any map is free game.

The game at the moment is broken towards Mages (especially Clerics and FPS), before mannies nerf, you guys basically were on the unbalance list too, the game was too much on your favor.

Im not saying im happy with how things are, like Mages still need a big nerf but i dont think that's in the reach for our mods to control, since mages have been outbalanced by design itself, you guys only had a big amazing map that made you literally gods in grinding too.

Maybe only maybe we can hope that EVERY class has a good amazing map like Mannies, or that every map can be almost as good, and then only then we may have mannies back for warriors

Sincerely, a future Paladin Main

reminder that the game can't be seen only with grind lens and that it can't be balanced exclusively around killing some mobs. Mages are of course on an advantage and have been designed to wipe maps, it's been always like that, but it's only controversial when you don't consider other aspects of the game like bossing where classes like paladin are broken in neo tokyo, scarga and excellent in horntail.

Maps though, I do agree there needs to be more alternatives, and staff have said that there will be some map-balancing soon~

Yeah feel free to come /find me anytime.

I don’t care for the map changes because I’m sure the balance team did a helluva lot more thinking on the topic than you guys, so I trust their judgment. The more egregious part of this debate is that you guys are complaining about a change to a mob that used to literally walk into your swords. How much lazier can you get?

I mean we're talking about grinding here, and bossing isnt even a thing until 4th job, i think everyone is okay past 130.

The thing is clerics got gs 2+himes, fps got poison grinding, warriors HAD Mannies, ranged classed had voodoos at best and it was mediocre in comparison and typhoons/newties are just so unworth on this gacha drop system.

What experience per hour range do you think would be an acceptable solo grind for warriors in 3rd job?

How come nobody complains about poison mist being an extremely overpowered 3rd job grinding tool? Most people seem to have gotten over that narrative because they assume “that’s their job.” And yet when 4th job comes it becomes OP again lol.

you said big nerfs and yes while the topic is about grinding and maps, you have to understand that balancing classes have consequences in every aspect of the game, that's why I bring bossing. Changing "x" to perform better at grind could make "x" broken in bossing, or the opposite. Dropping nerf suggestions can't just be based on grinding perspective, that's all im saying.

I mean, it doesnt have to , they can have their strengths and weakness but they mostly shine in 4th job anyways, mages at 4th still the best at mobbing, ranged at bossing, warriors are too good also at bossing and also decent mobbing

2nd and 3rd job
Magicians have a pretty balanced grinding (honestly unsure about ILs) tho FPs need a level cap (at least 40-50 levels max)
Warriors can have mannies back, but lower some drop rates so the money making is not as OP as it was
Ranged Classes (Bowman, Gunslinger) need a better map to grind until 120, that can use their strengths
They can't use arrow rain on most things, most mobs will get closer due to the increasing HP scaling, this CANT be helped , but maybe have a map where they can snipe things without risk just like a Ghost Ship made for them, no undead mobs so priests dont use it or fire weak (is not like rangers use fire anyways) , archers can rain/erupt, bomb/iron arrow as much, still use potions to position or maybe shuffle a bit

Outlaws and Hermits can just also snipe from it but still have their strength on 1v1 rather than mobbing on those levels

Im not saying this ''hypothetical map'' has to be faster or more profitable
but at least so everyone can be just on par, just about 90% as efficient rather than 70% of the exp and like 10% of the cash income that Mannies did to warriors

Unless you're asking for class-exclusive maps (which would further drive apart the grind community and a core component of the game), buffing maps that benefit warriors (close combat, high density spawn) will inadvertently buff the mage class. This is why balancing the game is tricky and not all that one-dimensional.

But I hope we can all agree that auto-aggro is a stupid mechanic (to a certain degree). Getting rid of that feature was a good thing, even though it led to the downfall of a fairly overpowered map. You should not be able to get from lvl 55-70 in one day of grinding on any character, especially a class that is specialized in bossing. Although I do agree that buffing up the spawn of Mannes might be warranted considering how large the map is compared to the other 3-story maps.

I encourage you to go revisit the library and look through some of the older maps that were released while 4th job wasn't around. 3rd job was when party grinding really shined with the introduction of HS. People glaze over it like a given feature now a days, but it was literally the glue that brought the upper 3rd job levels together to strategically form ways to make training bearable in a time before leech.

For a group of people that are 1) complaining about the unbearableness of grinding 2) adamant against leeching 3) looking out for the new player base and 4) desiring to foster up a community, I find it extremely odd you guys would rather be proponents for a braindead solo-grind map like Mannes over party-based, exp/time efficient strategies for grinding. It's an intended feature of the game by design, and yet the only excuses I'm hearing stem from either unwillingness to try or inconvenience.

This isn't actually true at all. My very first character was a Marksman and I took him to mannies at around lvl 80~, when he could tank at least one hit. All you had to do was set auto-pot to trigger the very instant you took any damage, and you could grind safely. You had to pay attention so that when auto-pot failed you can immediately pot and not die, but training on an archer was very doable and almost as fast as a warrior. Just spam arrow rain/eruption and win. I died probably once an hour because I'd get distracted and fail to pot, but even then it was 100% worth it. And once you washed a bit and could tank 2 hits, you'd never die.

My second character was a sin and I took her to mannies at lvl 80(!). Just max avenger, put a few points into flash jump, and you could mob almost as well as an archer with a bit more effort. The exp was worse, but not by a significant amount. And once you maxed shadow partner, it was just as good as an archer. So no, ranged classes benefited almost as well as warriors did from mannies. Everyone could go there. That's why the map was so good/vital for non-leech players.

Then can we have the Pay2Win aspect? OP as fuck gear?
Those were all part of the 'nostalgia' of Maplestory.

100% hard disagree on Mannies being "better" for Bandits now...
Band of Thieves mobbing made it feel good, like you were playing a Warrior. Savage Blow single target was pretty mediocre even with them auto-aggro'ing.

The problem with this argument - which is often repeated by many people - is that AM/Bishops do not exist in isolation. If they were bad at bossing but amazing at grinding/leveling and that's it, then yes they are balanced. The problem is that mages are so good grinding that they make every other character good at grinding/leveling. The synergistic power of a mage is what makes them busted.

I can't see any other class with quite the disproportionate effect on the game. The only equivalent was if paladins reduced the amount of time it takes to kill a boss by half.

Same reason. No one cares if a F/P mage speed levels them-self to infinity and beyond. The problem is when that same mage gets to speed level other people to infinity.
It's too much work to toxic funny everyone's posts so I'll just drop a mega-toxic-funny instead

Warriors are fine. Gallos/Himes were always better exp than mannies, enough that at 100+ you should get a lot more than 5.4mil, probably close to 6-7.5 solo or like 7-9mil with a priest. They're worse money than mannies but still profitable because of scrolls.

Or just kill NightGhosts/Foxes for money and buy leech. Anyone can do that. Time to smash CFA30 prices some more.

I also can't believe people are advocating for partying too. Like has that ever worked out for more than an hour? Your priest has a nose-picking appointment in 20 minutes so now you have to find another. Also the Hermit went to take a shit and hasn't been back in 30 minutes. There's a reason people like solo play and it's because it's much easier to not deal with other people.
1) It makes no sense to centre almost 90% of the game around finding HS. I'm not at all sure why you consider that the ideal experience; it seems horrific to me since I would feel demotivated to play if I can't find a priest.

2) You're missing the point ... mannies was exp/time efficient. Or do you considering the time spent looking for a priest not wasted? If there was a map better than mannies, we'd all be there. It's not rocket science!

3) "Inconvenience" is literally the driving force behind every human invention/innovation. We harnessed the power of fire because cooking meat was more energy efficient than chowing raw meat; we created writing so we could communicate more easily; we invented the computer to automate calculations. Everything we do is about convenience. So I find it "extremely odd" that you think people enjoy inconveniencing themselves in a video game.

Also if people are complaining about grinding being unbearable, why is the first thought to make it even worse?!

Your inability to find a priest to HS you or have a HS mule probably shows that you have not experienced or played this game a lot.

Why should balancing be in favour of a constructed public minority or a skewed minority? Most of these pepegas get bored of the game in 3 weeks time and quit, while the rest will probably quit when they return to work after the COVID-19 pandemic dies down.

Not as hard as you would imagine, especially for a new player with no friends who has an empty buddy list. The point is to add people you run into who are your level. It might have been uncommon 4-5 months ago when this server was less than a third of what it is now, but if you walk through some of the old training maps, people are already there in grind parties.

man people in this thread are sweaty af

BRING BACK MANNEQUINS AGGRO

I have said my piece and tried to speak from newer players' perspective. Manns was OP but the nerf was overkill.
I'll shut up on this note:

Stop calling people 'lazy' for wanting an optimal solo grind. Keep the judgement to yourself and go back to your party grind.

 

inb4 toxic post

Fuck everyone for doing HH mules to bring at bosses, you ruined my fun grinding with mage friend at Shaolin.

On avg I was doing 70-85m EPH at Shaolin 5-6F
Now thanks to the nerfs to Shaolin + HH CD to 15s

My exp got cut in more than half, as I'm now doing 30-45m at Shaolin.


Fuck anyone saying "grab a party to grind" fuck you, I had a party yet this game is toxic enough to nerf a completely fine class just because some fucking people were abusing HH for bossing.
Next we nerf Marskman Snipe because I'm sure they're going to bring the meta of Snipe 199k every 5 second as mules to HT.

Time to nerf Marksman Snipe to 15sec as well

 

On same note I want to bring this quote as well, as it's true.

 

Wait, why were you leeching off of mages? I thought you hated them?

Also isn't hammer basically just a mage ult? You'd think it would make you happy that it got nerfed.

 

I'mma go hide thanks

 

I agree with you, up until mannies we had to go for ws which honestly is kinda crap, i understand people used mannies for afk summon grind i just dont get why a why a whole class has to suffer for instead of punishing the people that caused this...

 

Recent CDs buff really fills the shoes that mannies left, but in a more party-friendly map. Try em if you haven't yet. Himes spawn rate buff is nutty for parties too.

 

I'm more excited to try out the deep ludi buffs after staff releases a drop rate event so i can get my second tier 10 ring!

 

60-80, coolie zombies.
80-90, death teddies, master death teddies (party grind)
90-120, gobies, rishell squids, himes (party grind)

there's no other better way to experience the real nostalgic of this game.

 

Unfortunately nobody, and especially no priests, want to do hime. You just lose too much money there on pots.

 

I don't see how having Mannies at all deteriorates from the gameplay aside from leechers having less people willing to get leeched. Make a rule banning summon afk'ing at Mannies then if it's such a problem... but why punish the warriors? It took me less than a week to get from 100 to 120 on my bishop - the gameplay is just much more streamlined for mage classes. After 120, mages also have a huge advantage with AoE attacks and warriors are just becoming more and more unplayable. Nostalgia isn't a good reason for a crappy game mechanic or a bad change and if you can make a change that people enjoy relatively easily, I don't see why you wouldn't.

TL;DR If you can stay true to the game's design while incorporating better facets that build on the game, why wouldn't you? Make mannequins great again

 

Why are people even responding to this thread. The issue has been resolved with the new buffed maps and there have been and it seems like more people have grown accustomed to party grinding now. Mannes are still extremely viable solo exp for those who are somewhat mobile, and it'd be even more viable in a party split.