Information Summer 2020 Balance Changes [Explained]

When I said reduce the elemental damage, I wasn't referring to the charges, but the amplification. I don't disagree that that would also affect mages, but I'm sure something could be done about that without breaking the game. E.g., 1.75x1.3x700% would result in 1592.5% damage to elementally weak enemies to fire (almost the exact same), but non elementally weak enemies (1.75x700%) would hit 1225%, a pretty good bump without being game breaking compared to the current 1050%.

Again this doesn't address that palis now have 30 skill points stuck in HH which is still completely useless outside of training in a few specific areas. Temple of oblivion is still bad compared to lightning damage, petris are almost more effective to train at without HH spam, and are a very low eph training spot period. Legit get more leeching there than grinding there. Dukus are a meme and aren't fun. I highly doubt crimsons are trained at particularly often other than to try to get hearts or brandish20. Not surprising that threaten can't be buffed well. I'm sure there could still be a better version of it on the server.

I either have to quit my character temporarily or permanently until this is resolved or my SP are refunded for HH. I'm sure some people would value it for training, but I get the feeling most will be more interested in skills that help them in all aspects of the game, not just training at a few specific places.

 

Really my main issue is the cast speed. I can do 4 blasts in the span of 1 HH and if we take HT as an example assuming legs and tail are down and I'm hitting 6 limbs ( 3heads, 2 arms, wings). 50*6=300k dmg per HH cast. At my level I can do way over 300k in 4 blasts so there's absolutely 0 reason for me to ever use this skill anymore.

If in comparison it only took 1 second to cast, heck 50k dmg ain't that bad, at least the opportunity cost of using blast isn't there anymore and HH is still a clear favourite and can be used. Cast speed 1 sec, 15 sec cd, 50k dmg? no problemo. I would actually find this more enjoyable than the old, clunky, 4 sec cast 200k dmg cause while it was strong, it was just clunky and you're literally stuck for days casting HH and unable to dodge anything.

Disagree on changing elemental amp % cause it just affects too many things but #makeholychargegreatagain #MHCGA

 

I don't think anyone is saying they can't get into horntail. I think they are saying that paladin DPM is more effected by the new changes than you might think...

 

I thought the current issue with holy is that there just arent any holy weak bosses that are relevant that arent ALSO weak to something else. And I actually dont know for sure, but I thought I read somewhere that the elemental damage bonus/penalty actually scales with the skill level of the charge (to cap out at the bonus we know), and additional that the holy charge had a larger ele weak bonus/smaller penalty, but who knows if thats true/accurate to this version. I think it was one of the ayumilove formula lists...

 

This is exactly correct. Every holy-weak boss i can currently think of off the top of my head (crow, kacchuu) is also weak to lightning. Lightning caps at 150% whereas holy caps at 140%, thereby making this an absolutely useless charge since it's outscaled by another charge from third job.
These two bosses aren't that relevant and they're gated by numerous people hunting and respawn timers, so I don't really believe buffing holy charge %'s would be that game breaking and it would help with ele neutral stuff.

It would also provide me a reason to do the skill quest for this skill...

Edit just doing some maths, ice charge on ice weak would do a total of 1.25*1.5 = 1.875 so 190% on holy charge would make no sense.

Maybe we can do it at like 185 so it's weaker than ice charge and can still be our main charge for ele neutral.

 

Main issue with holy from my perspective is that it's just worse than both fire and lightning in every way. There's less mobs / enemies / bosses that are weak to it, and it does 1.4x damage versus fire doing 1.75x and lightning doing 1.5x. Additionally it's a 4th job skill meaning the points you have to invest are a lot more valuable, so using it would be wasteful early on, at least as long as the current limitations apply, even if it's only 20 points vs the 3rd job charges 30 points.

 

Then what would be the issue with buffing Holy Charge? It isn't overpowered, lorewise it's fitting as a Paladin's main element, and with the HH nerf it seems like a perfect time to see what else one can do for them. I found it surprising when I came to ML that Holy Charge remained in its default v62 state while the other charges were buffed to some obscene levels, which is disappointing (clarification: not the elemental charge buffs but Holy Charge/Divine Charge being left in the dust). I'm sure this was discussed before by many people, but what is stopping them from increasing its multiplier above the third job charges?

 

And this is exactly why buffing holy charge is the best solution to the dmg reduction from nerfed HH. Aside from a boost to HT dmg, bosses outside of HT will remain unchanged for paladins. They will continue to use their current elemental charges for Scar/Targa? and NT.

 

A % between 180% to 185% would be perfect for holy charge. It would be stronger than fire charge and still weaker than ice charge on ice weak bosses like targa

 

bosses outside of non elementally vulnerable bosses (zak, ht, pap, etc.) will remain unchanged for paladins

I'd vote for somewhere around 190% as previously suggested. a .15 boost compared to fire would be better in my opinion. If you wanted to go full op you could do 2x but that's probably too much.

 

you can’t make it 190% because at 190% it would be stronger than ice charge on an ice weak boss and therefore make ice charge a useless skill since you’d just use holy charge to kill an ice weak monster.

the highest you can make holy charge is somewhere less than the total of ice charge on ice weak

 

Or just buff ice so it's not completely useless :|

 

El limite de 199k en mi experiencia solo pude alcanzarlo en mobs débiles a elementos como pianus usando SE + onix
Que opinas de potenciar solo holy charge, advanced charge, aumentar el coldown de HH 199k y quitar inmunidad a holy charge en cwkpq para una mejor distribución de daño, todo esto sin tocar blast, perjudicando HH mulas y mejorando a un paly como cleave, respecto a que % deberia tener holy charge creo que tienen razón en decir que no debería superar al ice charge en mobs débiles como targa por lo que propondría subir holy charge a 185% o mantenerlo en 190% y subir ice charge a 130 o 135% ademas de darles un impulso a advance charge blow a 400 o 450% en el mejor escenario, para pulir en entrenamiento con cargas de 3er job sin depender mucho de HH justo despues de avanzar a 4to job; se que estas ocupado pero por favor revisa lo que escribí mas arriba, quiero saber cual es tu postura.

 

Ice isn't completely useless o_o

Anyway, I don't think you guys (we paladins) are gonna get traction if our stance is just on replacing damage lost from HH -- Nise's posts made it clear that balance team saw our damage as a problem to begin with, they will not pre-emptively compensate before data is gathered, even if from our point of view it's pretty easy to calculate how much dmg is lost since HH is fixed damage for fixed casts per minute.

I'll just say that for me personally, the only way to make this palatable is to bring back hammer, no amount of buffing ele charges or blast is gonna cut it, because HH being cool was the reason I picked it in 2017 anyway. I did not even pick it for the OPness - back in 2017 everyone still thought paladins were shit classes and Nise hadn't joined the server yet so no one thought of disgusting shit like grinding at Crimson Guardians (also no shaolin).

 

This is such a whack explanation. Like I mentioned in the other thread, you can cast 4 blasts in the span of 1 HH, which equates to 16 blasts with 4 HH/1.6mil DPM in zak (1min). Assuming you are using Claymore + SI, you will be outputting 95.23 blasts per minute in an ideal scenario. Let's take the 4 million single target DPM you mentioned, and divide it by the casts per min, which means each Blast does 42k damage. 16 casts * 42k damage = 672k damage, meaning the "increase" is only slightly less than 1mil DPM.

Now, I say increase with quotation marks because you will never output 95.23 blasts per minute, since that's the number of casts on dummy. In practice, you will only be doing ~85 casts per minute, unless you are one of the top pallies (in which you can probably do ~90 due to player skill). 4 million single target DPM divided by 85 casts scales down the HH "increase" by around 100k, and I'm sure I don't need to explain the number is going to be even lesser when you are only cleaving 6 in HT.

 

Ice is completely useless outside of mass stunning via hammer. If you want to stun something, whack it once with acb. Every time I try to fight manon it takes longer than it should due to other enemies getting in the way. Even when an enemy is ice weak its usually easier to just use fire unless it resists fire. Only use case is mass freeze via hammer and ice weak enemies that resist fire.

 

Ice is used for Targa and Hsalf when he's left alone. Also for future, one of the PB statues are weak to ice, as well as Auf Haven the end boss of NT part 2.

 

Ohyeah what I meant was when I was paladin you were just the wee little pally, that was in like october 2017 or something wasn't it

But yeah I get that you guys needed to fix the mule situation and after my salt subsides I guess I can accept how this will play out. Won't join HT for a while probably (I was alr semi-quitting dragon cave PQ prior to the patch notes release and this change solidifies it cause BORING) but yeah plenty else to do in maple and real world for now. Have confidence in you guys to get things right again, somehow.

 

For paladin dmg
Melee solo dpm you mentioned
Let's talk about how we usually do HT

Hero is using major bossing skill "brandish"
Brandish hit 3 targets :
Left arm/wing/leg
Right arm/wing/right head

Pally is using major bossing skill "blast"
Blast hit 1 target :
mid head
left head
If you are using 1hand weapon and skill "ACB", you'll find that you can barely hit the arm.
no kiddings but the acb is only used for cwkpq
Pally use blast for all other boss run

The question appear
why only look at the 1 target dpm comparison and say that pally is good enough?
why don't we just just make hero?
hero only do 0.3m less dpm at Lv180 and 0.5m less dpm at Lv200
but hero has the chance to hit 3 targets while pally only hit 1 target

if it is available
I want to ask if it possible to make "2 targets dpm" and "3 targets dpm" melee dmg comparison and see how weak the pally is.
I want to see how people say "damn, pally is too weak for 2 or 3 targets as a warrior"

Also another question
You said pally is a single target melee attacker
Why not make a single target attacker dpm comparison and check how is the dpm among NL/BM/MM/Pally/Corsair and do the discussion.