Shaolin spawn rates

Alternate option: d e l e t e s h a o l i n

 

I'd love to see this happen because then not only will we get mages flaming GMs in balance threads, we can get the melee attackers to join in as well.

 

Looking forward for another 5-6 nerf, make them elemental resistant or something.
Can't wait for another Shivering thread.

Just delete shaolin and make everyone grind at deep ludi and deep aqua again to be truely old school

 

I mean gutting spawn is fine if the goal is to nerf exp but you have to keep in mind that nerfs would need to happen across the board. It wouldn’t be remotely fair if melee classes are getting 80m EPH (which is on par with solo mages training at petris) at 7F, if mages are now relegated to their old training locations. If you gutted spawn at just 5-6F, now mages would suck at bossing and would be middle of the pack at grinding.

I think if the goal was to nerf I/L utility at shaolin we should just readd freeze and severely nerf blizzard base damage by another 20-40 points. In the past FP have been a meme class because meteors strength is outshined within 6 levels on an IL and freeze is so strong. If instead of 6 levels we made this like 12-18 levels of TMA difference to hit the same dmg as an FP I could definitely get behind that change. This would also make it much harder for IL to achieve high EPH at Shaolin as they would need a lot more levels than their FP counterparts but they would get to keep their freeze which is a big reason why a lot of people choose IL over FP imo.

 

Mostly disagreeing because the suggested change fucks I/L on all other maps that is not shaolin which uh why? This makes F/p just far better if you're able to 1 shot all other maps 12-18 lvls before an I/L mage.

Also regarding mob density/spawn in Shaolin for melee and mages, it is far too good where alternative/old grind spots are not even half as good as shaolin which in my opinion is THE problem. I like that there's more endgame spots than before shaolin existed, but please why does it have to be atleast 2x better or more than any other alternative. At one point continuously buffing the alternatives has diminishing returns where at one point no matter how much you buff the alternative spots it won't dramatically improve.

I for one believe shaolin is due for more nerfs only to make other spots have a chance at competing and be considered by the general player base. I'm here to save ToT which is deserted.

 

I don’t really understand the diminishing returns argument. I don’t think that’s true. If you buffed ob5 by 2x exp then boom it’s equivalent to shaolin for IL.

As far as the 12 level difference mages level so quickly that the “nerf” in early levels is definitely manageable. Ulu2 would be available to FP’s at 130 and IL would probably hit the TMA threshold by 131-136 depending on your gear obviously. The nerf is definitely felt even less at the earlier levels of your mage career because ILs definitely make a lot more money grinding to 120 than FP do so they should have higher TMA to begin with. The nerf would definitely be felt at petris because instead of the 160ish mark you wouldn’t 1 hit till 165-170 range, but again it’s manageable. Freeze is extremely strong utility and there needs to be an actual trade off; 6 levels just wasn’t enough that’s why almost everyone who makes mages to leech in the past made IL over FP. After this recent nerf, if you’re making a mage to leech yourself chances are people are definitely going with FP. Removing freeze just isn’t the play because it’s a big reason why people choose IL over FP.

Regardless of what I mentioned above though, it can be less levels like 8-12 instead but I would much rather prefer to have freeze on ult and have to have a meaningful level difference as an IL than I would just not have freeze on ulti at all at the only map where it’s useful.

 

Sure, you could improve exp on a mob but its quite custom and is often rejected, or other ways are explored to buff than a simple rework of the xp/hp ratio of a mob (I know that). Shaolin is a unique case, the exp the mobs gave was similar to skeles but 3x more HP LUL so no sane person would go there if the exp was unchanged. Diminishing returns in buffing is continuously adjusting spawn or adding 1-2 when it can does little, and adding mob density to specific maps can already decrease any viability of ranged character grinding if a map is extremely dense. Also the argument is not for i/l only but for all mages (and other classes) to have viable alternative spots that are simply not 2x worse than shaolin maps. ToT is a huge area that is probably extremely under utilised and often not considered.

I do know that freeze is important utility, and i/l 3rd makes meso over f/p 3rd, but those levels are a small part of a mage's life in the grand scheme of things. I rather things stayed the same and have shaolin be a lot less dominant than suggesting gutting i/l base damage for the sake of 1 map/area which hasn't existed prior to 2018 summer.

 

Yeah I agree with you that 3rd job is a small part of a mage's life cycle, but my point was moreso a 12 level gap wouldn't have as much of an impact as you would think initially, because 4-6 levels can easily be made up in early 4th job just because of the meso advantage I/L has from farming better throughout 3rd job and being able to purchase better gear. You make a very good point though about nerfing the class due to one area though so I think in retrospect 12-18 levels would be very harsh.

My only issue with nerfing 5-6F exp is I don't think its unbalanced when you compare it to other classes. If you duo mage and have the 3 hit TMA threshold of 1320/1350 (which most people will hit around 17x) then you can achieve the optimal exp gain of 160m per hour; 160m is the peak case obviously; I would say 60-70% of mages who train at 5-6F have no idea how to stagger or control their characters to achieve this EPH even once they hit this TMA threshold and just mindlessly cast their ulties resulting in an EPH of around 120m. A comparable melee attacker at 7F would do like 80m per hour at this level range (this is just based on my convos with a very limited # of people so feel free to correct me if I'm wrong). This to me is balanced; mages should grind at about 2x the speed of the next strongest class because their bossing ability is so poor compared to other attackers. Obviously this "2x" number is just personal opinion and anyone can make an argument either way, but personally I don't think an exp nerf >10% on the mobs is warranted as it takes away the mage appeal of "grind beast" imo.

Then lets look at the leech aspect of nerfing 5-6F EXP. If you halved the exp then no one would go there because it's basically petris/dukus with more pot burn. Let's say you nerfed the exp by 25%. Now the optimal mages are at 120M and the hold down one key mages are at around 90M. What would that do to leech rates? They would plummet as the EPH would be pretty bad meaning it would drive leechers out of the map as skeles/petris now become more optimal to farm for meso/hour. Even optimal mages would now only be able to achieve 32-42m EPH, and supoptimal mage spamming would be just as bad as petris leech with more pot burn. That means if you maintain optimal rotation which is very micro intensive you can only charge 8M per hour to 3 people meaning you net about 22M after pots on the 2 mages and if you're not someone who controls 2 mages and want to sell with a friend that also becomes pointless because you get 11m each per hour which is a tragedy. 22M per hour is worse than skeles/petris which average about 23-25M/hour with nowhere close to the same amount of effort as controlling 2 mages at 5-6F is 3x the effort of skeles/petris leeching.

I think this change might be a little bit too custom. It's already impossible in game to figure out what kind of bonus % an elemental wand/staff gives as it's not stated anywhere; I think adding an extra layer of complexity where different wands are giving different % bonuses would be way too confusing just from a new player perspective.

 

We should nerf shoalin by making the monsters drop no mesos or equips. Tradeoff all meso gain for broken EPH.

 

Pink bean is just 1 boss though and even then pink bean itself is only a portion of the entire fight; I’m speaking holistically. If you look at meso investment to dps, no matter where you go, mages are subpar bossers.

 

I love how the thread is about spawn rate in shaolin and shivering just turns it into please buff i/l they are so shit compared to f/p

 

Shaolin nerfs literally revolve around mages. Nise asked for an opinion. I gave him my opinion.

Nowhere did I say I/L is shit compared to F/P. If you look at the 2 classes at Shaolin then yes I/L is subpar now at Shaolin. I didn’t even ask for a buff to I/L. I’m confused how getting freeze back at Shaolin and nerfing IL TMA requirements by 30-60 TMA is a “buff.”

 

ok so you should nerf the magic on blizzard just to get your freezing ability back at a handful of mobs at one specific map. Seems pretty healthy how the whole game revolves around shaolin now

EDIT: can we just make shaolin mobs immune to fire and ice at this point?

 

at this point, i don’t think it would be fair nerfing shaolin too hard. Way too many people have already benefit from it. Just buff OBV 4/5 spam.

 

Inversely, I'd like to see less Exp efficient maps get buffed with better meso/drop rates so that there is at least a justifiable trade-off.