The reason why our ToS needs to change

If screenshots are not good enough evidence, take a video of the conversation.

like I said earlier. You are responsible for your own words and actions. Private is only private until it’s leaked. Then it’s public.

 

that is because the companies behind it provide the checks/logs. Is discord going to do the same for legends ban cases?

 

Unless you require video evidence only, it’s still possible for someone to submit doctored screenshots. It’s also possible to fake videos of a conversation as well, tbh, since you can edit what Discord displays using Inspect Element.

 

What do you mean, discord screenshots are infallible.


also video for fun
https://youtu.be/gWTJUavQGRk

second edit for crayon munchers, these are fake btw

 

It’s really not hard to prove it’s doctored. The defendant can show their side of the conversation if they have nothing to hide. If the reporter prove to be of malicious intent, then they will receive punishment

 

Come join my discord. Let's have a chat.

 

Assuming staff actually tries to prove the validity of screenshots. That isn't currently part of the process, as far as I'm aware.

 

I'm actually curious if Staff would go through the effort of verifying screenshots and videos of Discord conversations, and if so what their methodology would be.

 

If the discord screenshots were faked, then wouldn't it be pretty easy to bring that up in a ban appeal and disprove it with a screenshare?

It's pretty easy to verify discord screenshots - login via incognito browser, refresh, show the chat?

So even if you were banned for fake screenshots, I feel like it wouldn't be difficult to prove your innocence. Then the reporter would also get doubled punishment for a fake report, which I'm not sure someone would be willing to risk.

 

In theory that would work, yeah, assuming you a) know what you were banned for and b) staff goes through the process of verifying the screenshots in a way that absolutely cannot be faked by any means

 

i think the framework encourages people to be more offended than they actually are. tbh people who make and allow for these excessive rules should be the ones enforcing

 

Just to clarify, this is a bluff. But if you are/were at all hesitant join in my chat in fear of what could be done, that's a pretty spot on representation of how some players might feel regarding ban attempt baiting. You don't know why some people have x amount of warnings/strikes on their account. It could have been from a bad dispute from x years ago, and now you have 3 warnings across all of your accounts. How are you feeling then?

For the record, I personally do not think it's difficult to remain drama free, but I'm at least cognizant of the fact that the more socially integrated you are in the game, the more susceptible you are to it. Sure, some people say stupid things, but some people also get offended easily. People often misinterpret things/situations that weren't even involving them at all.

How does one verify the contents of a chat server that doesn't exist anymore, or one that they don't have access to? How far back does the statutes of limitation go? Can I report someone for something that was said to me 5 years ago in a discord server in conjunction with something that was said to me 5 days ago?

These are all valid points and I'm glad you included the disclaimer for population trend correlation. Maybe it's just me, but as a player that has been around for awhile, I've never felt more the feeling of population decline than within the last few months, and I am concerned about how staff are handling things with the existing player-base in an attempt to lay ground for new players. It's been feeling like a scorched earth approach in hopes of some rebuild for the future.

One counter point I would like to add is that a ban back in 2017 is completely different than a ban in 2023, where a fair amount of players now have several years of time invested into this game and its community. Back in 2017, I doubt there were as many long-time players around like there are today.

I do wonder if there could be a way for people to reduce their demerits over time for prolonged good behavior. This would incentivize being on good behavior and would give some path to redemption.

Honestly, this just sounds like internal mismanagement to me. You can have an internally established set of procedures that don't involve a public facing ToS at all.

 

friends today could be enemies tomorrow.

 

not sure, i have seen people park mule chars and discord that lie dormant in guilds (in-game) and discord.
I have also heard of players who create alternate discords and act as a new player to spy discord chats. nowadays i am so wary of typing anything in game or in discord that anything that i wanna say. i tell my friends "R>VC". we dont know whos spying on us and this gets worse as u reach end game and end up in the divisory fault lines existing in the community.

 

who knows maybe one of your friends is the new GA!!! ^_____^ /s ofc

 

I am pretty sure GM’s doesn’t even present the evidence the accuser is using against the accused. How do you even defend yourself and explain to gms the context and how the ss could be fake or set up exactly so it makes the acusser looks more in the right than what they are.
- GMs should present evidence of what happen to the acussed, so the accussed can explain themselves instead of having a guessing game waste time and having a race before moderators close the appeal because the accused has no idea what the reason of ban is. The vagueness from GM’s is insane

 

secret police culture, where eyes are everywhere. maybe it will make ppl behave.

 

To give a quick example of vagueness or discretion. before stalking was actually added to the official ToS the question was what is ToS now I feel like the question is when are you exactly following a person and when are you uncomfortable and what makes sense?

if I feel uncomfortable with GM's being invisible in my 5-6F map and I get footage or proof they are in it can they be reported or banned if told to cc.

If you channel-surf maps and do nothing and say nothing and you pass by the same player is that following? And if so is it illegal (stalking) or are you legally watching (investigating)

- With how this rule is worded I can see certain GM's ban players more roughly than others its just super subjective and should be worded more clearly though I can see its nice to make traps like this so you as gm's can ban players you do not like

- and saying you are human and everybody makes mistakes over and over again from gm to gm is honestly starting to sound very cliche or like you are making excuses for making bad bans and justifying them. I think you moderators should be better at clarifying the people that you falsely banned instead of saying completely nothing to save embarrassment from the public the damage you do by falsely banning people is irreversible and could have been prevented if moderators were better at acknowledging they fucked up.

-Arrgh Nise, you cannot be serious here I hard disagree, GM's should just provide evidence. GM's are too vague, cannot be trusted and too passive. Our Maplelegend moderators does not deserve the right to alter evidence so they start banning for more things than what is presented