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Information Anniversary 2023 Balance Changes [Explained]

Discussion in 'Update Notes' started by Nise, Jun 7, 2023.

  1. Trion
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    Trion Capt. Latanica

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    Jul 23, 2019
    5:47 AM
    Trion
    Beginner
    1
    Some great small changes in here!
     
  2. Rainemard
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    Rainemard Balance Team Staff Member Balance Team

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    Jun 30, 2022
    Male
    11:47 AM
    Rainemard
    Paladin
    148
    Nimbus
    It's really worth it, 27k lives anything and you can do so without the annoyance of being inted now. Though most warriors only get like 60 INT, so while not a huge impact, it does feel a lot better (especially for nostalgia players that turn out to like the game more than they thought, no ruined accounts anymore!).
     
    • Agree Agree x 2
  3. Alyosha
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    Alyosha Skelegon Retired Staff

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    Mar 9, 2017
    2:47 AM
    Dostoevsky
    Dark Knight
    200
    Spirit
    I'm having trouble understanding why Burst Fire needed a damage reduction to go with the speed boost, or where the math is that puts it in a healthy spot? Outlaw is the weakest 3rd job class in the game by a very healthy margin, not just for single target but also for their incredibly bad mobbing. I even did the math to show just how hard Burst Fire underperforms:

    12 attack above max clean maple level 64
    10 att glove
    3 att cape
    20 cider
    27 ilbi/16 vital
    450 main stat 50 secondary

    Outlaw: 126 attack, 450 dex, 50 str
    top range: (450 * 3.6 + 50) * 126/100 = 2104
    bottom range: (450 * 3.6 * .9 * .6 + 50) * 126/100 = 1165
    1165 to 2104 range, average of 1634

    average * skill damage * lines * attacks per minute
    1634 * 1.9 * 3 * 87 = 810k DPM

    Hermit: 109 attack, 450 luk
    top range: (450 * 5) * 109/100 = 2452
    bottom range: (450 * 2.5) * 109/100 = 1226
    1226 to 2452 range, 1839 average

    average * skill damage with crits * lines * shadow partner * attacks per minute
    1839 * [(.5 * 1.5) + (.5 * 2.5)] * 2 * 1.5 * 100 = 1103k DPM

    Ranger: 128 attack, 450 dex, 50 str
    top range: (450 * 3.4 + 50) * 128/100 = 2022
    bottom range: (450 * 3.4 * .9 * .6 + 50) * 128/100 = 1121
    1121 to 2022 range, 1571 average

    average * skill damage with crits * lines * attacks per minute
    1571 * [(.5 * 1.1) + (.5 * 2.1)] * 4 * 91 = 915k dpm

    Sniper: 131 attack, 450 dex, 50 str
    top range: (450 * 3.6 + 50) * 131/100 = 2187
    bottom range: (450 * 3.6 * .9 * .6 + 50) * 131/100 = 1211
    1211 to 2187 range, 1699 average

    average * skill damage with crits * lines * attacks per minute
    1699 * [(.5 * .75) + (.5 * 1.75)] * 5 * 87 = 924k dpm

    The results are as follows, for a figurative level ~80 3rd job characters using maple weapons and run of the mill gear:
    Burst Fire: 810k dpm
    Ranger Strafe: 915k dpm
    Sniper Strafe: 924k dpm
    Lucky 7 Shadow Partner: 1103k dpm

    It's a pretty big gap considering Outlaws have absolutely nothing else going for them. They aren't even allowed to max their mobbing skills because of minor performance increases like Gavioto in 4th job, and now they'll likely lack the numbers to knock back bigfoot in 3rd job, which was unironically one of their best options to train.

    outlaw:
    1634 * [(.85 * 1.9) + (.15 * 3.3)] * 3 * 87 = 900k dpm

    ranger:
    1571 * [(.35 * 1.1) + (.65 * 3.5)] * 4 * 91 = 1521k dpm

    sniper:
    1699 * [(.35 * .75) + (.65 * 3.15)] * 5 * 87 = 1707k dpm

    hermit:
    1839 * [(.35 * 1.5) + (.65 * 3.9)] * 2 * 1.5 * 100 = 1688k dpm

    sniperchamp
     
    • Agree Agree x 2
    • Great Work Great Work x 2
    • Informative Informative x 2
  4. xiaoyaoz
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    xiaoyaoz Balance Team Staff Member Balance Team

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    Jul 17, 2020
    Male
    10:47 AM
    Actually, the maths is a little misguided because what was actually in files were higher damage % than described by the skill and in the library.
    If we use the new numbers, which is 170% for max damage and 660ms base speed, which will be 540ms at speed 3, it gives 111 attack per minute.
    Plug it back into your equation here:
    1634 * 1.7 * 3 * 111 = 925k DPM which goes in between the archers and hermits.

    NL/Hermit/Sins are just broken as always :vomit:
    However, we do welcome suggestions for more improvement if these are deemed insufficient. :)
     
    • Great Work Great Work x 4
    • Informative Informative x 1
  5. lv1crook
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    lv1crook Capt. Latanica

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    Jan 19, 2021
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    2:47 AM
    Level1Crook
    Corsair
    1
    Flow
    Finally the prejudices outlaws have long suffered are being brought to light
     
  6. Nadav1
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    Nadav1 King Slime

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    May 18, 2021
    Male
    12:47 PM
    Beginner
    Thanks for the hard work as usual.
    On other note I'm kinda disappointed about zero balance changes on economy / afk gaming / roar farming /bossing.
     
  7. beegoratto
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    beegoratto Zakum

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    Sep 22, 2021
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    2:47 AM
    leetoratto
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    I believe it was mentioned large balance patches and event patches are going to be separated
     
    • Informative Informative x 1
  8. imSK
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    imSK Red Snail

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    Mar 11, 2023
    2:47 AM
    Is there a page with ALL updated skill changes in 1 post? ie shows all up to date skill changes by class?

    Thank you in advanced
     
  9. Soblet
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    Soblet Zakum

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    11:47 AM
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    • Agree Agree x 1
  10. Lin
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    Lin Headless Horseman

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    5:47 PM
    Linny,BangHero,Carbide
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    Bonk
    Legends news Anniversary 2023 is done, enjoy!

     
    • Great Work Great Work x 2
    • Like Like x 1
    • Agree Agree x 1
  11. xDarkomantis
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    xDarkomantis Mushmom

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    5:47 AM
    Thank you for taking the time to do this change and thank you everyone who supported my thread for this buff for early Dagger Bandits.
     
    • Friendly Friendly x 1
  12. Soblet
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    Soblet Zakum

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    11:47 AM
    Soblet
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    It's disappointing to see these type of handholding changes being implemented but that seems to be the direction we are headed towards. Glad some people are happy with it atleast.
     
    • Great Work Great Work x 2
  13. -ovv
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    -ovv Horntail

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  14. xDarkomantis
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    xDarkomantis Mushmom

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    5:47 AM
    .... How is it handholding when Lucky Seven was vastly superior to Double Stab in both damage and potion efficiency? I'm disappointed you have no idea what you're talking about and annoyed to see a beneficial change.
     
    • Agree Agree x 2
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  15. fartsy
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    fartsy Zakum

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    4:47 AM
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    i can't wait to see the new NL guide where double stab is maxed rather than lucky seven due to too much int
     
    • Agree Agree x 2
    • Creative Creative x 2
    • Useful Useful x 1
  16. LeonardoJF
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    LeonardoJF Zakum

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    Jun 16, 2021
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    Rio grande do Sul - BR
    6:47 AM
    ItzLeo
    Paladin
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    Favela
    the shadower buff was a buff for the nls, there's a topic talking about buffing the pickpocket, if that happens somehow it will help the NL mesos up :kek
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  17. ryanlights
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    ryanlights Windraider

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    • Great Work Great Work x 1
  18. Soblet
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    Soblet Zakum

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    L7 is still superior in almost anything worth doing first job/early second job. The people that want to roleplay a dagger bandit at first job would do so regardless of this change. Funny enough this is mostly an intlord buff as Fartsy mentioned and also a buff for uninformed players that went for DS instead of L7 hence the handholding comment.

    I do think I know what I'm talking about though and my annoyance lies with the balance changes we have been having and not with your posts or suggestion, it was just easy to reply to.

    We keep getting changes to this old school server that serve little to no purpose and while I'm all for change at least make it make sense. As I said the double stab buff doesn't actually accomplish much other than handholding or buffing intlords, then we get a custom maple dagger (makumagna reskin), tbh I have no idea why this was introduced because the crafting system we had is gone and there's plenty of statless daggers in the game already.

    Then there was the shadower IED which noone asked for but we got it anyway. No discussion or anything and very minimal reasoning to why it should exist.
     
    • Agree Agree x 2
  19. OmbReanrd
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    OmbReanrd Master Chronos

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    5:47 AM
    Fara
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    200
    thats the way i used for my NL 1.5year ago. idk how viable it is now with PQs being less and less populated.
    I have also managed to farm cards by myself single client and step up my monster ring
     
  20. Pasta
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    Pasta Game Developer Staff Member Game Developer

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    11:47 AM
    Moderator Post
    Depends on what you mean with "purpose". Not everything is aimed at an optimal gameplay strategy.
    The double stab change is not for intlords, it's for players who would like to play a 1st job thief with a dagger. It doesn't want to change whatever the perfect route would be, it only makes regular dagger gameplay less of a pain early on, so that, should you wish to enjoy your bandit game without having to choose between throwing stars or throwing your sanity, at least you have a bit of an option.

    The custom dagger was prepared before we decided to switch to the "new" maple weapons obtaining method. It didn't hurt to add anyways, so we kept it in.
     
    • Friendly Friendly x 5
    • Agree Agree x 3

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