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Link Skills

Discussion in 'Suggestions' started by Oatmeal, Feb 28, 2023.

  1. Daydreamer
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    Daydreamer Headless Horseman

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    Your suggestion is way different because they would be tradable and usable by anyone. Linked skills would only work for people who maxed the skill on a character.
     
  2. Cak33
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    Cak33 Headless Horseman

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    The process is different - but end result is the same. People put in effort (in mesos or grind time) to have the ability to have the buffs without mules. If anything, mine would be a safer approach as it is possible to limit these pots by handling them out only during events, which allows a near-absolute revert if self-buff is deemed too overpowered.
     
  3. LeonardoJF
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    LeonardoJF Horntail

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    you got my point!
     
  4. Kargo
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    Kargo Skelegon

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    Multi-clienting was never supposed to be in the game anyway, so I think the people who care so much about being efficient in a game and wanna go through the hassle should just be glad it’s even possible at all.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  5. twing1
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    twing1 Pink Teddy

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    I also really like the spirit of this change, and agree that it should be limited to just one link skill per idle character on the account.

    I would take it a step further and take away the player choice of skill to link, and make it so that leveling up a character would unlock a singular, designated link skill for each class.

    The link skills for each class would be as follows:

    Hero: Rage
    Paladin: Threaten (I know technically not a party buff, but it does provide a benefit to the party)
    Dark Knight: Hyper Body
    Hermit: Meso Up
    Bandit: Haste
    Buccaneer: Speed Infusion
    Corsair: Hypnotize? I guess? Not many party support skills in this kit.
    Archmage F/P: Meditation
    Archmage I/L: Meditation
    Bishop: Holy Symbol
    Bowmaster: Sharp Eyes
    Marksman: Sharp Eyes

    As per the original suggestion, these link skills would only be self-buffs (I guess with the exception of threaten for paladins and hypnotize for corsairs, as other players would be able to take advantage of the debuffs placed on monsters) and would not work in PQ or expedition settings.

    I would also add the restriction that in order to unlock a link skill for use on other characters, the idle character must be level 150. This way, people can't just leech something like a spearman to level 40 and get maxed hb on every other character on that account. They would actually need to master the class to unlock the link skill.

    I believe a change like this would neither harm nor negate the effort of multi-clienters who have already leveled up a mule character for the suggested link skill of that character, and would only help to close the gap between the multi-clienting and single-clienting playstyles. Multi-clienting would obviously still hold the advantage of being able to leech your own character via other accounts, but as others have said, if they want to put in the extra effort to run multiple clients simultaneously, there should be some added reward.

    This system may also incentivize people to create other characters they normally would never play, which may provide a popularity boost to classes that are currently lower in popularity.
     
  6. HimeHam
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    HimeHam Pac Pinky

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    I think muling should be harder.
     
    • Like Like x 2
  7. PumpkinJuice
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    PumpkinJuice Orange Mushroom

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    It is weird that you acknowledged the staff's effort to keep multi-client from being too powerful, and in the next moment you suggest an even more powerful method than multi-client.

    And also don't you think the hassle of having to multi-client multiple buffs a good balance to multi-client? Like you said, needing to rebuff every 3 min or so. This is a good way to make sure everybody doesn't get stacked with all kinds of buffs.

    If the Link Skill you mentioned gets implemented, it will cause too much of an imbalance. It means that every single class will have rage. Cider, attack pots will become useless. Just use rage, saves meso and item slots. Don't tell me that you will specifically on a rage mule for yourself, and then go fm every 3 min to buff yourself?

    Also, haste on every class is actually very op. Like a warrior having haste every moment every where you go without the needing another client just makes it too easy. At this point, might as well give all class flash jump skill.

    Btw, you are meant to play the classes without all the party skills you mentioned. If you want the buffs, you need to party with others, or multi-client to "simulate" another class to play with you. What I am trying to say is that this is the core gameplay, party up with "others". What you suggested is not just a simple QOL improvement, but an entire gameplay change.

    Let's not even mention how much time is needed to implement this, especially with a v0.62 client, for a supposed QOL change.
     
    • Agree Agree x 2
  8. Siegfried
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    Siegfried Master Chronos

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    I can't say I agree here. There's nothing nostalgic about Link Skills.
     
  9. HimeHam
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    HimeHam Pac Pinky

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    True, wtf is the point of mounts if everybody has perma-Haste?
     
  10. OP
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    Oatmeal
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    Oatmeal Mano

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    So, most who oppose the suggestion seem to think that multi-clienting buffs is so inconvenient that barely anyone wants to do it. I just don't see it that way. Multi-clienting is a nuissance sure, but its extremely easy to setup after leveling the characters. I'd like to expand on the sentiment though.

    Multi-clienting is not very fun. Unfortunately, it's objectively the most optimal way of playing the game. Now you can say that doesn't force anyone to play in the optimal unfun way, but that doesn't change that it's optimal. Then, because it's optimal, and because this is an MMO about making progress and grinding, people will be incentivized to play this way. Removing multi-clienting would result in a better game for those who would otherwise feel obligated to abuse it. Realistically, multi-clienting isn't going to be banned though because there's no way of enforcing such a thing fairly. The only remaining solution is to disincentivize multi-client play as much as possible. Link skills are one way of doing so, but people have made other suggestions in this thread that could be just as valid a solution. Alternatively, maybe solutions could be explored in the opposite direction (ei: make buff mules so inconvenient their use becomes unrealistic). Preventing buff casting in FM, removing safe spots from popular maps, captcha, idk.

    In any case, it seems I overestimated the population that actually engages in degenerate multi-client mule buffing behavior. Either that or those replying to this thread are just a vocal minority of those that don't.
     
  11. fartsy
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    fartsy Zakum

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  12. Selquin
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    Selquin Headless Horseman

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    You may feel that way, but not everyone would agree. I, and many others, would argue that multiclienting gives the game far more depth and makes it much more fun. Optimizing single client gameplay is great, and I myself have put a vast amount of effort into it over the years, but after a certain point there is only so much you can do on a single client. Being able to operate multiple clients opens up many new possibilities and raises the mechanical ceiling, both in terms of farming and bossing.
     
    • Agree Agree x 3
  13. OP
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    Oatmeal
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    Oatmeal Mano

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    What do you unlock with link skills thats a problem for multimaging? The only relevant buff is meso up and anyone multimaging already has that covered. I guess HB would be easier to justify for unwasheds, but the alternative of having 30k base mp would still be better. Not to mention in a multimage setup, you would have to build alts on every account to get the buffs. Separate clients for the buffs would probably be easier in this context as long as your not maxing out your party. I suppose you could six way multimage farm with easier meso up coverage, but that just feels like such an extreme case to me.

    I mean I did say as much in the original post, I just don't necessarily feel the same way. I just think that buff muling in particular does nothing interesting for the game.
     
  14. HimeHam
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    HimeHam Pac Pinky

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    My main issue is player interaction. Multiclienting already removes a lot of it, and this suggestion just makes it easier when I think it should be harder. I don't hate multi-attacking in expeds as much as people might think, but buff mules really have to go if this server wants to keep the social aspect alive with dwindling player counts.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  15. fartsy
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    fartsy Zakum

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    all of my dks used about 2m nx on ap resets and 1b on leech. when there’s a will there’s a way & balancing needs to be approached with potential future abuses in mind
     
    • Like Like x 1
  16. LeonardoJF
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    LeonardoJF Horntail

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    Agree, and say more, multi client is good for causal player too..
    imagine take more time finding a squad cause is missing a job than do the content?
    if mutliclient is bad, is a bad necessary
     
  17. Ainz
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    Ainz Zakum

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    Imagine cwkpqing without multiclient lmao
     
    • Agree Agree x 2

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