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Important New System for White Scrolls (Feedback Thread)

Discussion in 'MapleLegends Announcements' started by Nise, Jul 6, 2021.

How do you feel about the Prestigious Coin system?

Poll closed Jul 14, 2021.
  1. Strongly support

    190 vote(s)
    34.4%
  2. Slightly support

    130 vote(s)
    23.6%
  3. Neutral

    90 vote(s)
    16.3%
  4. Slightly oppose

    71 vote(s)
    12.9%
  5. Strongly oppose

    71 vote(s)
    12.9%
  1. aussietinask
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    aussietinask Horny Mushroom Retired Staff

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    Male
    12:23 AM
    The numbers definitely have to be flushed out and will come in time if we do implement this.

    I can see your point as to the simplicity of selling something from gach easily. As an alternative perspective, would the coin system actually make it harder to sell? For example, if someone rolled a ws from gach, they can trade it to an npc for coins, and then anyone who would want to purchase it whether for investment, cs or ws could buy it. Technically, wouldn’t the market be even wider? I can sort of see it both ways

    the fluidity of the coin market is a definite matter to consider though. How easy will it be to buy/sell the coins
     
    • Informative Informative x 1
  2. lucifers
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    lucifers Red Snail

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    12:23 PM
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    IAmCatMeow
    It may be a good idea, but why not increase the drop rate of WS and CS in the vending machine? or they can make bosses drop WS and CS by placing a drop depends on the complexity of the boss
     
  3. Floris
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    Floris Capt. Latanica

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    I very much agree with you :). I just think the added benefit of systems being easier to balance with an additional parameter is just a great bonus!
     
  4. pharaoh
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    pharaoh Master Chronos

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    Mar 30, 2020
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    11:23 AM
    Radiologist
    Marksman
    200
    Beaters
    As I mentioned in the other thread, it would be great to see a way in which level 200 characters can receive more PC’s from certain bosses compared to other characters, to account for the huge amount of experience rewards that are not gained (especially HT, Toad), such that there is an incentive to continue bossing on a level 200 character. I believe this would be positive for server health in the long term to keep positive incentive structures for level 200’s, many of whom “retire” from bossing/switch to playing casually now that the major bosses don’t offer worthwhile rewards for the time spent, as the experience reward is gone whereas the financial reward has not increased.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
    • Disagree Disagree x 1
  5. boldaslove
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    boldaslove Dark Stone Golem

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    Jul 19, 2015
    11:23 AM
    BoldAsLove
    I/L Wizard
    Synergy
    it's really cool seeing this idea fleshed out like this in a long post. the idea itself reminds me of chumji watermelons being worth 2 bil in a verrry old server related to mittens (i wont say the name but thats p close lol) and the idea was you'd rather have these golden watermelons to trade for 50% scrolls and ws rather than mesos but you still traded the mesos for the watermelons. it was like a 20x server with rebirths so you got tons of mesos making there a need for the watermelons prob based on inflation first and foremost but prob helped w/payments and keeping things tied to a proper currency. with that said, there's some history to the idea in private servers and im sure other players have their own examples too.
    i'm still digesting the idea and trying to play it all out in my head.. so my opinion is kind of a work in progress. right now i'm thinking of the math..
    190m / ws
    20 coin / ws
    190m/20 = ~9.5m / coin
    ^ Hypothetical here.

    I wonder what would impact the price of coins and how that would all be controlled..

    anyway, it's an interesting idea. seeing the coins in fm and people advertising to buy will help new players understand. and whether it works out or not its cool to see this all drawn up
     
  6. Jafel
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    Jafel Capt. Latanica

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    May 3, 2015
    Male
    5:23 PM
    KingSlime
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    70
    Twice
    I like the idea.

    I saw people mention the concern regarding number of white scrolls and chaos scrolls. Staff probably has an idea of the number of chaos and white scrolls currently obtained per week through gacha (due to the notice ingame). They could see what number of total ws & cs would be acceptable to obtain in a week. And based on that extrapolate this to HT (as that's also easy to measure how many times it's killed per week, due to the notice ingame).

    Hypothetically:
    If there are 140 white scrolls and 140 chaos scrolls per week.
    If we know HT is killed 140 times per week. (You can do HT twice per reset right?)
    And we think the supply of white scroll (as that is the most expensive item that should be balanced around) should be closer to... ? 175 a week.
    We know that we need 35 ws obtainable by all bosses. Of which HT (and maybe PB) will be the biggest contributor (due to the difficulty + prestige of the boss). so let's say 90% of this should be from HT. That means 30+ WS per week from HT. If only super sweatlords in a one-party HT run join, that means we would have 10 parties of 6 people generating 30 WS. Or about 0.5 WS per supersweatlord per week.

    These numbers can be adapted to anything you'd like. I doubt the balancing is going to suck that much. But yeah, in the end it will probably just increase the overall profits by a small margin. 60-100m per bosser extra per week. That would be 3-5m extra profit per bossing instance at HT.

    Idunno, I just pulled all this out of my ass.
     
    • Informative Informative x 1
  7. UnknownCode
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    UnknownCode Nightshadow

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    8:23 AM
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    I like where this is going but,
    How would this translate with 0001003.png Legendary Spirit?

    If someone cannot trade their [​IMG] White Scroll but forget that its actually untradeable meaning it cannot be placed into storage, would it still automatically be used with the skill?

    What would happen if a [​IMG] White Scroll were to be used with 0001003.png Legendary Spirit by accident?

    When you mentioned the rich get richer and the poor stay poor, what does this actually mean?

    Would players that can't really afford [​IMG] Prestigious Coins, or have the "Something else" to 'craft' these coins how would they be able to gain mesos from this, would they be stuck with an untradeable [​IMG] White Scroll?

    If a player cannot obtain the other items or have enough mesos to craft [​IMG] Prestigious Coins and that player is gated to scrolling items that they would want to scroll using the skill 0001003.png Legendary Spirit however they have an untradeable [​IMG] White Scroll.. would the "bug" be fixed when this becomes a thing or will it still be in the game?
     
  8. aussietinask
    Offline

    aussietinask Horny Mushroom Retired Staff

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    Male
    12:23 AM
    UnknownCodeUnknownCode just confirming that we’re on the same page, white scrolls are untradable to other players, but can be exchanged for X number of prestigious coins without additional cost, to an NPC

    it sounds like you think people will get stuck with white scrolls that they can’t get rid of? Let me know if I misinterpreted
     
    • Like Like x 1
    • Friendly Friendly x 1
  9. Nightz
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    Nightz Supervisor Staff Member Supervisor Game Moderator

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    5:23 PM
    Nightz
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    Moderator Post
    I was in the midst of typing something similar but just to add to UnknownCodeUnknownCode their concern.

    You can un-check the box so it does not use the white scroll afaik
     
  10. UnknownCode
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    UnknownCode Nightshadow

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    8:23 AM
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    Its not to get rid of, its being able to use Legendary Spirit in order to scroll something thats
    A) Not their job/class.
    B) Cannot place in storage, so that its automatically used by Legendary Spirit since theres a bug with White scrolls that automatically check the box.

    Since untradeable items cannot be placed into storage when the player doesn't have enough of "something else" to create the coins what is going to happen to them?

    EDIT: I was about to spam.. so I'll just edit this below here

    https://forum.maplelegends.com/index.php?threads/scrolling-ability-should-not-autotick-ws-use.38490/
     
    • Informative Informative x 1
  11. aussietinask
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    aussietinask Horny Mushroom Retired Staff

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    12:23 AM
    I think under the current system proposed, you do not need anything else to make white scrolls into coins.

    so for example, if ws=20 coins:

    WS => 20 coins (free)
    20 coins + something else => WS

    so if you get a WS, and you’re afraid of using it accidentally, you can convert it into coins to hold, then convert it back into WS at a later time.

    the automatic ticking of legendary spirit and WS is annoying, but it would be a quality of life change, and wouldn’t affect the discussion here much I think
     
    • Like Like x 2
  12. Socollocos
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    Socollocos King Slime

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    10:23 AM
    Socoli
    Bowmaster
    I got a WS last night from CWK exchange.
    Then, I was thinking this is totally RNG and CWK exchange doesn't help to cool down the price of WS. It definitely needs something so people can exchange for it. Also, WS is currently being used for tax avoidance, so we need a "official" minimum price of WS.

    Now, you guys came up a gold standard system idea. Now, meso is linked toward coins. I can see coins will be a good currency for saving and trading.
     
    • Friendly Friendly x 1
  13. Nightz
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    Nightz Supervisor Staff Member Supervisor Game Moderator

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    • Informative Informative x 1
  14. UnknownCode
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    UnknownCode Nightshadow

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    I see, okay thanks for clearing my confusion ^_^
     
    • Friendly Friendly x 1
  15. ShadowerZhi
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    ShadowerZhi Slime

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    12:23 AM
    ShadowerZhi
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    What if the current Anniversary Points System is maintained as a permanent feature? More specifically, the Boss Points system and the Raffle System only.

    So every time a player defeats a boss, he/she gets boss points like in the anniversary now (at similar rates), which can then be used for a raffle that can land him/her WS, CS and other items, much like the new CWK.

    Advantages:
    - Prices of WS/CS stabilizes as the supply increases
    - Equitable wealth distribution (mid-end game players can come together for mass boss runs, while late-end game players can organize smaller groups and do a faster and more profitable run whilst maintaining slight advantage, but they're both limited by number of runs per day)
    - Bossing is great again
    - Does not intimidate new players who are joining the server for the nostalgia (boss points not relevant until later)
    - No need to write more new codes, just need to modify the existing Anniversary Points System (I assume)

    Disadvantages:
    - WS and meso wealth still disappears with banning of end-game players
    - Low-level players are left out (but perhaps PQ points can be maintained too?)
    - Mules abuse
    - Mid-end game players may get fast-tracked into late-end game faster, thus making the server even more top-heavy
     
    • Disagree Disagree x 4
  16. renew
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    renew Orange Mushroom

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    I have an even easier fix, make white/chaos scrolls tradeable just once. Problem solved :)
    (so if someone pulls one in gacha and I whisper him 100m I have to use it as a purschaser)
     
    • Disagree Disagree x 1
  17. MrPresident
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    MrPresident Capt. Latanica

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    11:23 AM
    MrPresident
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    Overall this seems like a pretty solid idea but hard to balance properly. Might've been said already but my main concerns with this system would be staff setting "official" prices on ws/cs and how quickly would price adjustments happen. Say RoT drops in price over 2 months by 30m would ws just be 30m less during that time or would staff offset the price drop with something else? To me staff is getting too involved in a free market by setting prices but maybe it'll be good overall.
     
    • Agree Agree x 4
    • Like Like x 1
    • Informative Informative x 1
  18. akashsky
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    akashsky Horntail

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    8:23 AM
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    First off, big thanks to staff on asking for feedback on something that is meta - defining on the server.

    Overall I am positive on this idea, I think it can be a positive change to the server as long as the rates are balanced well. However, if your goal is to "reduce" the utility of chaos and white scrolls as an investment, this coin does not change this phenomenon at all, other than perhaps adding a bit more of a "risk" element to that investment since we are now investing in farmable goods.
    1. "Player bans contribute to price rises. Lots of end-game players have a number of WS on them. When they get banned for various reasons (account or permanent), this means less available WS on the market, constricting the already limited supply."
    In this case, what if a player gets banned with a bunch of coins on them? Would it not have the same effect? Of course, the market could recover easier since the ws / cs are now farmable.

    In this scenario, the server is still "punished" when a player with coins is banned. Furthermore, the suggested change also does nothing to curve the utility of coins as an investment unless there is some ridiculous tax associated with converting them back into CS and WS.

    If the cost to convert the coins back into CS and WS is minimal, I can simply just keep buying these new coins to facilitate my 2.1b+ transactions. People will hoard them up and we end up having the same problem as we do now with CS and WS.

    The difference with the situation post this implementation is that players have more options to take matters into their own hands and FARM their own cs / ws, rather than completely be helpless at the whim of the market. But then again, that could also be resolved with the much simpler solution of adding cs / ws to the boss drop tables.

    TLDR; I think this is a positive change, but will not actually resolve the issue of CS / WS as an investment vehicle.
     
    • Agree Agree x 4
    • Informative Informative x 1
  19. Feeed
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    Feeed Mr. Anchor

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    Overall, this is the change that we need.

    To the players saying "yeah but people can just hoard coins now", please keep in mind that coins would (be much more abundant than single WS drops. A few rich players can't control the supply of something when they're being generated all over the damn place, and profitability on boss runs wouldn't be contingent on a single rare drop (imagine not needing an mw20 drop for a Horntail run to be profitable)

    One thing to point out is that I think it would be important to incorporate some kind of meso sink into the process, as this change makes it even significantly easier to evade taxes. Less mesos being lost to taxes means the value of the coins does inevitably rise. I understand that trades or coins for pure meso are taxed, but I'm a bit worried that after enough time coins won't be cashed out terribly often.

    Regarding the point of alternative currency, I don't think this is any different from crafting materials or Neo Tokyo coins, really- I'm not terribly concerned about this myself.

    It's a much more "spread the wealth" / elegant solution than WS/CS expiry dates and it really incentivizes bosses as a way of making money so yes please all aboard :D
     
    • Like Like x 4
    • Agree Agree x 2
  20. Romel
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    Romel Stone Golem

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    11:23 AM
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    just delete cs and ws from the game









    Why make CS and WS intransferable? what if i'm making a timeles weapon in an attacker but i manage my mesos & WS in mages
    I prefer that the boses have a drop rate which would be easier to control by increasing or decreasing the % as they did with the NT weapons, I think that 5% would be fine, I dont have idea what is the % drop in weapons of the NT bosses but it sucks, at the time of distribution it would be much easier to sell WS CS as some good book and give splits
    As a bonus you receive untradeable coins to attack bosses and that can be obtained ws cs transferable by avoiding the mule breeding
     
    • Disagree Disagree x 3

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