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Feedback Prestigious Coin Feedback Thread

Discussion in 'Suggestions' started by Nise, Nov 2, 2021.

  1. Nise
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    Nise Supervisor Staff Member Supervisor Game Moderator

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    Hi MapleLegends!

    Over the course of 55 days (from August 31st to October 25th, 2021) 512 Prestigious Coins [​IMG] were collected!

    We'd just like to thank you all for assisting in the collection of the data for the Prestigious Coin (see here for a detailed explanation of the system). It's one thing to set drop-rates, but quantifying individual boss kills across the server over a period a certain period is a bit harder. Hence why your help during this time frame was so crucial to us.

    We're hoping to get some further feedback from the playerbase to see what can be further improved. We have a few ideas on what to do to improve the system for an official full release, but we wanted feedback on some thing first, which are:
    • Considering the potential value & importance of the Prestigious Coin, do you believe the drop-rate was adequate or does it need changing?
    • Do you think specific bosses were too low or too high and should be altered to suite?

    Of course you're welcome to mention any other feedback you have relating to the Prestigious Coin system, as we're sure there'll be many helpful opinions and thoughts!

    Furthermore, we have also been discussing and considering creating a spin-off coin to be used in the creation of Chaos Scrolls specifically, similar to how the Prestigious Coins will be used to create White Scrolls. This would remedy one of the drawbacks of the previously proposed Prestigious Coin system by unlinking the price of the White Scroll and Chaos Scrolls. If players have any inputs or opinions on this they want to be heard, please let us know!

    Thanks again to everyone that helped in collecting data. Any and all feedback will be much appreciated.

    Happy Mapling!

    Special thanks to AnonAnon for writing up the post!
     
    • Informative Informative x 2
    • Like Like x 1
    • Great Work Great Work x 1
  2. farys77
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    farys77 Orange Mushroom

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    I think the drop rate was not sufficient enough to lead to a price drop in WS. the drop rate is pretty low and I don't see it really helping with the price of white scrolls.
     
    • Agree Agree x 23
  3. Karn
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    Karn Mixed Golem

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    I think it depends on how would be the trades, if we consider for ex. 10 coins per WS/CS, the whole server generated 0.93 WS per day which seems pretty low.
    About my experience alone, for the most time I didn't even remember there was that Prestigious Coin drop test phase because it barely dropped.
     
    • Agree Agree x 4
  4. carebu
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    carebu Brown Teddy

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    500 across the whole server in 2months seems low to me. Of course, the server is in a slower point of the year right now, and if the coins were some guaranteed bonus income, more people would boss more regularly. But lets say the rate doubles through participation, that's still only like 35ws/cs per month spread over the entire server. Supposing they're worth 12-14mil.. They really don't make a measurable impact on things like zak, and it's pennies on the HT averages. :shrug: I guess I would suggest if it's not already, to target benefit the bosses that aren't worth doing otherwise. I doubt HT needs coins at all, and PinkBean.. is very RNG whether it's worthwhile doing, but when it's worthwhile it's pretty profitable right? I'm not sure coins are justifiable there, despite it being the apex of the game. The rich get richer and all that.

    That's my noober perspective anyways.
     
    • Like Like x 2
    • Agree Agree x 2
    • Great Work Great Work x 1
  5. FCOArlo
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    FCOArlo Master Chronos

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    I can only speak to the content I do, which is mainly HT and PB but I felt like the drop rate was pretty low overall. I can't say I think it should be raised because I don't know what exactly the full intention of this system is. Should someone be able to get enough WS to complete a perf weapon? Then it needs to be increased. Should it only be a slight supplement to what we currently have? Then I guess it's enough but I'm assuming the answer lies in between. 512 coins is just over 34 WS/CS created. I personally don't think that's a significant number of a 55 day span server-wide so I would think the rate needs to increase. I know as someone who runs HT 4-5x a week, I saw maybe 8-10 coins total? Obviously as a runner, we would love to get more. That's not even enough for a single WS from bossing on the sweatier side for almost 2 months. I think a separate coin for CS is fine, or just decreasing the amount of coins needed for it so we can stick to one currency(i.e. 15 coins and 5m for WS and like 13 coins and 5m for CS). With only roughly ~.62 WS/CS being generated via coins a day during the 55 day trial, I almost think we could get similar results by just increasing gacha rates/cwk exchange and not introducing something completely new if the effect isn't that large overall. Obviously, if the rate of coins to WS/CS changes then that changes the calculations and could totally alter my view but this is all based on the 15 coins and 5m stated in the OG thread.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
    • Great Work Great Work x 1
  6. Alyosha
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    Alyosha Skelegon Retired Staff

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    512 coins looted(with loads disappearing) or 512 coins dropped total?

    If it's only 512 that dropped that's only like 34 WS/CS(15 for the exchange was the rate? I can't remember) over the course of 55 days, or barely enough to dent the market. If significantly more were generated than looted(as currently they're valueless) then it's hard to say anything about the system with the current data

    edit: looking back to the original thread it doesn't really show a cost associated with purchasing WS/CS with coins. Am I being gaslit by an edit or was no number ever really put out there?

    Other data missing that might be useful to know are the total number of bosses ran that generated these coins. I don't really do enough varied content to know how or where it ought to be tweaked.

    edit 2: went through a bunch of old screenshots of HT drops and 9/50 had coins, but that comes with the note that I didn't know what date to start so I started it with the first coin seen. Could go up to 55 or 60 runs with 9 procs, or you can just roughly gauge it as 1/6 HTs had a coin
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
    • Informative Informative x 1
  7. noobonmove
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    noobonmove Mushmom

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    I believe the drop rate of the coins will be more than 500, since more people will be hunting for them since there will be some use for them finally.

    The Drop rate seems fine to me.
     
    • Disagree Disagree x 7
    • Like Like x 1
  8. Toon
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    Toon Capt. Latanica

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    34 ws produced in almost 2 months, considering 15 coins per scroll rate. I know people gonna boss more when it’s for real, but still looks underwhelming. Seems like a introduction of a more versatile tax free currency than ws, without even affecting by much boss splits and ws price rise.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  9. Feeed
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    Feeed Mr. Anchor

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    I'm not sure if 34 additional WS (512/15 = 34) over 55 days is enough to make a significant enough dent in the price, and while the idea of a bossing party making an extra 12~15m to be split (since coins are planned to be exchanged at 15coins:1ws) on occasion sounds nice, it doesn't significantly buff bossing either.

    I think the drop rate itself is fine- the change I would like to see personally is a lower amount of coins needed to craft a WS. If it were to be 10 coins:1ws, a bossing party would get much better splits when a coin would drop (coins would sell for ~20m ea), and we'd also be adding more WS into the economy at what I would think is a more reasonable rate (about 1 extra per day at the current pace).

    Adding a secondary coin for CS is a really good idea that I'm totally in favor of :D

    Thanks for doing the experiment and I'm looking forward to seeing where this goes!
     
    • Like Like x 2
  10. akashsky
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    akashsky Horntail

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    The only bossing I've done recently is neo tokyo and I think the rate was something around 5%. I thought this was on the low side, and I'm pretty sure that neo tokyo was one of the more efficient ways to farm the coins.

    I think that you should ensure that the coin drop rates match the difficulty of the boss.

    For example, neo tokyo, 2 people take 30 minutes to kill a boss. For horntail, 6 people take 90 minutes to kill the boss. To keep both of these commensurate, horntail needs to have a coin drop rate 9x more than the NT boss, which may or may not be the case right now.

    I don't like the addition of a secondary coin because it adds extra complexity. I'd like to keep things as simple as possible.
     
    • Agree Agree x 12
    • Like Like x 1
  11. porl
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    porl Mixed Golem

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    I did almost daily JC & Verga, with around 2-4 Nameless & HT a week, with 7 PB runs done total, maybe like 20-40 Krex too. Every non-PB or HT coin was rolled. I have seen maybe 30-40 coins total. I myself have 20 coins. 20 / 512 = 3.9% of the server total. My 20 coins would be enough for 1 WS.

    HT & PB drop rates seem IMO very, very low compared to the much easier bosses. Seeing the coin rate as it is currently wouldn't get me to run Rav/Pap/Latanica/Krex/Scar/Nib etc any more than I already do (which is almost never atm).

    If I had of spent that equivalent time farming raw meso I'd almost certainly have had far more WS by just buying them outright. Sure I'd have less exp, but the coin rate to me seems too low at current rates.

    I'd much prefer a system with much more frequent coin drop rate & higher coin cost to create WS than the current hit or miss nature. A higher rate would be more worth it for those trying to create their own WS rather than earn more boss profits.
     
    • Informative Informative x 2
    • Agree Agree x 1
  12. Joker
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    Joker King Slime Retired Staff

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    WS/CS market is just exponentially going up, so honestly anything that could help lower the prices would be beneficial to the server IMO. I saw it a good amount of times on the bigger bosses like HT/PB, but I did come across it during JC a couple more times since I run it daily. It wasn't a lot and it wouldn't have been enough to get me 1 WS or CS. Difficulty of bosses should affect coin drop rate as well.

    Suggestion to call the CS coin Mysterious coin, if we went that route. But, I think if they were to be split, then drop rate needs to be increased.

    What sucks about the testing is that it's taking over another potential drop that could be more beneficial to the runners from the bosses currently, since they're useless atm. I think we're going to need some trial and error after it goes live to get the perfect balance. Plus promoting bossing content will help the server diversify content, so people will gravitate more towards bossing rather than leeching for once in a while.
     
  13. Cerulean
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    Cerulean Brown Teddy

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    For feedback on a system, it is good to keep in mind what the intended goals of the system are. Going back to the very original thread on prestigious coins, staff seemed to have a few major goals in mind:

    I agree strongly with the goal of linking bossing profits (especially end-game bossing profits) to WS/CS directly. As of now, WS/CS is directly linked only to farming and leeching through gachapon tickets, and as WS/CS prices have gone up, the already large gap between bossing (no gach tickets) and farming (generates gach tickets) has only widened even further. Bossing is simply not sustainable in the long-run if its profitably hinges upon skillbooks or equips -- as the server ages, the demand for WS/CS overwhelms the demand for these boss drops, which pushes people towards farming/leeching.

    I also agree with others in this thread that drop rates will probably need to be reworked, possibly significantly, if this goal is to actually be achieved. But it's too hard to say exactly how when we are only observing fake drops that don't offer the same incentives as if the drops had true value.

    We've heard from staff about coins dropping from bosses and testing drop rates, but we haven't heard much on whether the plan is still to make existing WS/CS untradeable, as the original proposal thread stated. This is a huge change, and may be more significant than the coin drops themselves, so it would be nice to hear more about this.

    I am not understanding the logic behind this last point. How is an end-game player with a large WS stash getting banned different than an end-game player with a large coin stash getting banned? Maybe the argument about coins being "fluid" is that coins can drop from bosses and are not locked behind gach, but this is really just going back to the first point about whether the drop rate is high enough to make a difference. The "soft cap" on WS prices also does not make sense to me, since coin prices can go up in the same manner that WS prices are going up now.
     
    • Agree Agree x 4
    • Informative Informative x 1
  14. shck
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    shck Timer Retired Staff

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    Still the same sentiments as before the this data collection period. 512 Coins collected seems to be really underwhelming, the issue I have with this data would be players having the capability to, but not bothering with participating in related content to contribute to the data collection.
    Prestigious coins being an etc. tab accessory vs it being actually functional/directly tied into end-game progression essentials plays a huge part in the amount of effort players(such as myself) put into gathering them. For example, I've only done 2x ravana or nothing+ PB on every saturday for half the data collection period, but I would be doing way more bossing if the coins amounted to something.

    While the math show ~34ws being generated in 2months, I believe the actual amount will be significantly higher than what this number shows.

    If the initial idea behind this initiative still stands,
    Then yes, it requires a changes/tweaks or whatever you want to call it. At the current rate that coins are dropping and the plausible price they'll be going for, it's seemingly impossible for this system implementation to address the "huge disparity between bossing and farming".


    Sorry if I come off a little rude but in the first place
    the overall structure/design of this idea has always been good and has huge potential only limited by the staff team's potential concerns. So I'm not sure why we're discussing adding more custom content despite it being basically the same thing.
     
    • Agree Agree x 3
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  15. renew
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    renew Orange Mushroom

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    I'm very positive to this new coin, perhaps make the coin slightly more valued somehow so you can have it as a new currency instead of white/chaos scrolls in the long run.

    I think you should compare the coins with the amount of gacha rewards cs/ws per month to put the coins where it should be.
    Other than that great work it's one step in the right direction!
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  16. halfwaysleet
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    halfwaysleet Master Chronos

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    • Considering the potential value & importance of the Prestigious Coin, do you believe the drop-rate was adequate or does it need changing?
    When these coins are released, players will farm certain bosses far more often than they did over the course of those 55 days which could lead to a power creep.
    I suggest lowering it's drop rate from easier bosses such as pap, reducing the amount of coins required for the exchange from 15 to 10, and increasing the amount of meso required for the exchange from 5 to 10 million. These changes would prevent players from abusing the coin system through farming weaker bosses, make it a bit easier for people to split mesos among the runners and also promote more meso sink.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  17. blacksheep23
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    blacksheep23 Red Snail

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    Just my looking at the numbers, i think it will not make a dent in WS/CS price.

    Few points to take note
    1. Summer event on-going during the 2 months observation period.
    This may lead to lesser boss runs as people are farming candies instead - that is the case for me.

    2. There should be more data release to players to comment for your feedbacks.
    Examples
    a. # of coins dropped from each boss runs
    b. # of boss runs to contribute to 512 coins
    c. # of WS/CS generated from gachapons during the period
    d. # of WS/CS generated from CWK exchange quest during the period
    With all these data, you might also want to consider to increase coin drop rates from bosses like Zakum, Papu, Ravana which might encourage these boss runs. (similar to the boss point system in the past event)

    In short, don't just look into coin generations from boss runs but as a whole ecosystem.
    Always remember the end goal is to lower/control the price of WS/CS into the economy.
     
    • Agree Agree x 2
  18. Gurk
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    Gurk Nightshadow

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    If one of the primary intentions of the prestigious coin system is to make bossing more rewarding, the current rates are far too low to achieve that. I've seen 8 coins drop in the 150 NT runs I've ran since the patch, which is a ~5% drop rate. If we value a coin at 12m, this amounts to an average increase of roughly 600k for an NT boss kill, which is then generally split two or three ways for 200-300k more in splits. The drop rate for HT seems to be approximately 3x that of NT, which is to say the current rates for coins would increase HT EV by ~1.8m, which again amounts to roughly ~300k more in splits for a 6-man run. These rates would have to be greatly magnified for bossers to feel like they're getting anything out of it.

    With respect to containing rising WS prices, the rates still seem too low. An injection of ~4 WS per week into the system seems all too insignificant. This of course also partly depends on how much of the price increases we're seeing is a result of hoarding and whether or not the system will be implemented in a way that will discourage hoarding to enough of a degree.
     
    • Agree Agree x 5
  19. -ovv
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    -ovv Horntail

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    The main thing I disliked about this version of prestige coin was that it felt really clunky because too much weight was given to each coin. Contrary to Gurk's post above, I thought the problem was that the exchange rate wasn't granular enough - 15 coins for 1 ws makes each coin too valuable making balance tweaks more difficult because it would need to be balanced through a larger drop rate variance depending on the difficulty of the content. Because of this, I think the drop rate of each coin was set too low out of caution, thus making it a rare occurrence which didn't really help the whole feast or famine issue.

    In the initial prestige coin thread, I had imagined a system where coins dropped frequently/consistently for the harder bosses with a variance per run. Something like:

    White Scroll - 150 prestige coins
    • Pink Bean - drops 50-100 coins on average, PoT can be traded in for 50 coins
    • Horntail - drops 2-5 coins on average, egg can be traded in for 1 coin
    • Zakum - drops 0-2 coins, favoring 2
    • NT - drops 0-2 coins, favoring 1
    • Papulatus/Krexel/Ravana/JC - drops 0-1 coins on average, favoring 0
    Personally, I thought the granular method of bossing points was done really well and would be a better system for personal progress/growth. It's character-locked progress so it doesn't impact the overall market (can't be traded/sold) but it would allow individuals to slowly work towards a goal, which is something I think everyone would like.
    Something like:

    White Scroll - 1000 bossing points
    • Pink Bean - 100 bossing points/clear
    • Horntail - 10 bossing points/clear
    • NT - 2 bossing points/clear
    • Zakum - 2 bossing points/clear
    • Scarga - 1 bossing point per kill
    • Papulatus/Krexel/Ravana/JC - 1 bossing point/clear
    If someone spent an entire week clearing each of these bosses daily, they'd earn a total of 464 bossing points a week, which I think is a pretty sweaty feat nobody would really accomplish. It would take over two straight weeks of clearing every boss to get 1 white scroll. My guess is most people would default to picking maybe 1-2 bosses a day depending on their playstyle, schedule, and network of friends.

    My point is - by making the system more granular, you have way more room to tweak and rebalance depending on the difficulty.
     
    • Disagree Disagree x 3
    • Like Like x 1
    • Agree Agree x 1
  20. TORONTOTOKYO
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    TORONTOTOKYO Windraider

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    PB 10 x harder than HT?
     
    • Agree Agree x 3

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