Do paladins need a buff?

From lv 10-120 there probably the same, once pallies hit lv 123 they have acb which is decent for grinding at an early lv, 133 to max HH to train at shaolin
I would argue that after lv 140, hero’s have easier time progressing in the game due to being able to join cwkpq, at an early lv, unlike pallies
Which is a really good spot meso wise, they can also carry there weight at shaolin even at a lower lv, if they can find same lv partner

 

i think your first message.. broke? It's half a quote

As for having a bit more feedback do you mean like us GIVING more feedback on what we think? Or the reverse? About GETTING more feedback/data points?[/QUOTE]
Having a more open discussion with the comunity about topics like for example paladin buffs and what we could do for them, or any buff for bucc hahah.
I know you can't say what is planed but just more debate, most of the talk happens between players, or thats what I feel o.o

 

I can kind of see why they don't sometimes. For many proposed changes, there would be two parties of thought- those who want everything to remain as-is, "our goal is to be authentic server not fun server, are we going to be like gms???" and those who want changes, big changes if possible, "keep the game fresh, knights of cygnus when". I mean look at the recent discussion and vote on the removal of one-of-a-kind tag on zak helms to stimulate economy. The vote was split almost completely in half. If every post had to go through the democratic process of a community discussion and vote, it would take pretty long to get stuff out the door.

Of course, corollary to that is to not be surprised if some of those undiscussed changes are met with some confusion and even backlash.

 

As a pally main I would like to see a holy charge buff, even if it means maxing it later throughout the journey, if that makes us more of a balanced pick compared to other classes.
Also it’s heartwarming seeing our comments taken into account regarding balance Changes.

 

There's nothing wrong with requiring more SP to get the full build because unlike buccs we have useless skills in our 4th job skill set. Fire charge is still decently strong and holy charge can be one of those skills you add into when you finally go into late game bossing like toad and HT.

Bearing in mind holy charge maxes out at 20 it's really only 7 levels extra. If a paladin goes 2h sword they will max HH -> blast -> acb -> stance -> holy charge (Or in any other order they prefer) and this brings them to 160. To be frank anyone below 160 would be carried at HT unless they're super funded so having holy charge maxed out at 160 isn't too bad.

In the scenario of a 1h bw + shield pally user, they will eventually max everything good by 196 (HH, Blast, Holy charge, ACB, Stance, Achilles, guardian MW20, Rush) which gives them 4 levels in the end to put into whatever (hi monster magnet, I wish I could use you more but no thanks). A 2h pally user can ditch guardian and max everything by 186 giving them 14 levels of spare SP.

 

I'd just really like to know....is it REALLY worth just destroying Paladin players to stop this problem? No right or wrong answer really, maybe to the balance team HH was such a glaring concern that it had to die by hook or by crook even at the expense of an entire class of players. I think it's pretty overpowered and somewhat silly as well, but like...does it REALLY negatively impact the server? I'm not saying it doesn't by the way, I'd just like to know how is it so bad that paladins have to eat a big nerf just to stop the issue.

Anyway, I'll talk about the holy charge thing- it might help. Not even worried about the SP concerns.

But...as I've posted multiple times before, you can buff blast to 700%, make holy charge 200%, make all HT body parts weak to holy, and raise the damage cap to 300k and I still wouldn't return. Reasoning is that damage doesn't bother me as much as the fact that gameplay-wise we just got stripped down.

That's what I think anyway. I'd understand if the other paladin mains are more concerned about their damage and overall viability, but my two cents is that I play this game for enjoyment, and clicking one button just isn't it for me (I strongly dislike cwkpq for this reason since I can literally fall asleep doing it).

 

Guys, chill, palas were trash in GMS anyways

 

Nise What if Buccaneer had the best 1vs1 dpm in the melee category, with Paladin being close (including good sance for bucc)? Then we have a class that is harder to wash and has no defensive skills what so ever (Yeah I know I.Freames, those dont save you from burtal hits like Nameless claw swipe,HT tail, or Toad), a harder class to play, not technically hard since if yo uget used to the job you can perform well but you need to be consistent do a lot of damage tests to be whats the best combo and try to apply the optimal strategy. Supporwise Im not sure how much value SI has now most ppl just want to rock SE with ranged and forget about melees (the latest HT update makes ppl fear a bit the cleave) anywhere else SI is ok altho a bit worse cos you cant SI mages, TL is a super nice skill altho is more of a safety net than a skill you should have in the party (is super neat if you got an echo user but welp Mules are a thing). Paladin also has a bit of an identity crisis I wish they were the tank of the game like they later made em to be but atm they are equaly tanky to a hero, and HH was such an awesome tool they had (the old 10 sec cap dmg) but you know mules have ruined that so I'm not sure how to aboard paladins :/

Edit:
I also think harder jobs or jobs that require you to pay more atention should be stronger. Is funy but noways in mapelstory the more combo heavy jobs that also need to manage cooldowns are the strongest in the game yet they are still the least played jobs, I think people will just rather do a bit less dmg and feel more comfortable in the end than embrace this kind of playstiles.

 

I've already mentioned that you can still use acb quite often in HT when most of the limbs alive so you still have two skills to use (Blast and ACB).

 

I wonder if a ACB range buff to match crusher or and barndish woudl be good. I mean acb cleave still better than buccs cleave x-x so no worries on gettign outdmg there

 

What makes a job desirable also comes down to the playstyle. Papewirght jobs will awlays have room in maple and will be prefeared by 90% of the comunity, there is a reason why hero is far more popular than DK and most ppl don't even know what a bucc does or how they function at all. When comes to support skills SE is the most desired party skill in the game (even more now that you cant SI a bishop) making SE users far more desirable than a SI user, I would even say that SE users get more of a pass when comes to dealing damage since most ppl value them for the buff rather than the damage that they can output. as a Buccaneer you need to do damage to prove that you are worth the slot on the party (and thats why sadly no matter how strong you are you will be most likely relegated to 10+ men HT runs) . Now how do we comapre to the other melee classes, specifically paladin and hero, Hero is a very simple and straightfoward class to play, the supprot they bring is low-ish cos of rage but their cleave is the best in the game + how tanky they are they can easily be a seduce mule (My bucc has 30k hp yet doing this task is a headache at times, specially with the new HT changes) they pefectly can fit on a 6 man run in HT and do pretty well on any boss pretty much, specially on CWKP. Paladins on the other hand they had some neat cleave with the old HH (I wish it could be damage based now so equiped paladins can do a lot of dmg with it again) but is a class that needs to be fixed on that regard, also they do far more cleave damage than buccaner tho o.o with jsut acb so maybe giving them some range on that to match brandish would be neat. Bucc cleave in normal form comes mostly from your 1vs1 skill meaning the damage you speard among parts is reduced to cheap damage, transformed si a bit different since sntach does more dmg vs3 than demolition (but all the 3 target cleaves are unrealaible since if the HT wings are dead the arm goes down and you miss it making demolition better, same on CWKPQ where the thief boss jumps a lot unless is buged) and when you cleave 4 parts snatch is super neat altho overal you are doing cheap damage to every part in comparition to lets say DK and Hero that do full dmg on every part.
Now a thing I wanted to say o.o even if Bucc had 100% stance all the time at HT their damage wouldnt be that great and I would sugest a damage buff along some stance buff, but well we will see what comes on the next balance patch.
Is nice to have a direct discussion with a GM like this (I enjoy discusisng points of views and balance ideas with everyone) kinda sad that were doing this on a paladin post o.o. Paladins do need soemthign ofc get em buffs hehe

Edit: most ppl wold rather mule bucc x-x sadly as well

 

I guess even at 6.7m dpm 40 you're undesirable for a 6man HT. Back to 10man's you go!

 

Any SE user does more dpm than you and as I said SI is not as desirable (same with HB lately since a lot of ppl wash a lot) also your dpm will go down once u need to kill the arms and you are not transformed something that may not be accounted in the dpm 40. Also you have to lower your range to compensate for the fact that you baerly have stance. So much effort to do less than others that just spend the whole run wathcing tv

 

You would have a pretty hard time finding an archer who does over 6.7m body averaged dpm, but I do agree that SE > SI for sure, especially now that bishops cannot benefit from SI.

 

Surprisingly DK is actually the most popular high level warrior currently, counting every warrior who's leveled since August 1st of this year between levels 150-199.99. They beat out Heroes by just 7 users though, so it is pretty close. I'm not sure what that says about people, but it's a bit weird that the most popular of the three is the lowest damage and most difficult to effectively use. Buccs and DKs are in a bit of a similar boat when it comes to damage/difficulty, so it's a bit odd that they're less popular when both have the same draws as technical supports. People should try buccs out more.

It also doesn't sound correct to say there's any major difference in the training ability between all 3 of the warriors late in the game at 7f. They're all relatively the same, with a few small differences. DKs have the best range with good damage with Dragon Fury hitting 6 targets[250% damage x 2 for zerk x 5 for weapon multiplier]. Charged Blow for Paladins actually beats Dragon Fury in terms of pure DPS, but with less range[350% damage x 1.75 for Fire Charge x 4.6 for weapon multiplier], along with mixing in HH when available and Blast for leftover targets. Heroes are probably the worst off being limited to only Brandish being limited by it's poor range and limit at 3 targets, but high damage on the 3 targets. DKs have that option too but it's noticeably more difficult than just going Fury with a Pole-arm.

 

Is eve harder to find a Bucc with that average damage as well, efficient and strong ppl are not as easy to find for any job. Could say teh same about good bishops that can carry sed even tho they are very needed.

 

Kinda weird since most ppl rather pick the easier job hero that functiosn very similar. And come on all DK lovers liek us hate/love the class so evey DK that plays DK should only count as half