Do paladins need a buff?

It would appear I'm slightly incorrect, your response just didn't acknowledge the fact that they can't participate in krex. I did however bring it up in the post you're replying to.

 

I mean, you could always adjust the weaknesses.
In fact, the fact that so few bosses are weak to any elements is why palis are only actually useful for scar, NT, and pianus (which is only really relevant for bpq since 99% of the time any given player can't get a spawn).
You could always adjust some bosses so they're actually weak to an element. Zak's an evil stone tree, you could make him weak to holy, you could make a couple of HT's body parts weak to their own elements, then as the only class that actually uses elements they can really contribute at least until those body parts are down. Then mabye they wouldn't be so reliant on hammer. Not that this won't just get more people to complain because palis outdamaged them on one body part on their nl, therefore they need to be nerfed another 40-60%.

 

So what I get here is that HH mules are literally the ultimate evil and part of the reason for ht book price crash (question. Since the patch did ht book prices recover? I've quit ht and semi-quit the game since patch so idk) and had to be nerfed, even at the cost of paladin main players. But that's acceptable because paladin mains were playing overpowered characters since day 1.

With this, what do we have for paladin mains now? What is the advantage of playing a paladin?

Well, we have the ele advantage bosses. Scar (a shitty feelsbad no exp boss whose drop does not have consistent demand) and neo tokyo (much much much better, tho lets not pretend it makes up for our deficit at cwk and ht all)

We are also relatively easy to play I guess? Cheap weapon options in crushed skull, and claymore isnt too bad either. 1h mace flairgrave is ok-priced vs 1h sword grave. No need to hp wash is a big plus (heroes share that though).

I can't think of much else. Don't bring up training speed because while in paper hh makes things super easy, in practice after mid 15x hero and drk take over really easily while not having to go thru the clunkiness that is hammer grind.

I'm not sure about you but those meager advantages are not enough to make up for playing a trash cleaver in cwk and a bad class in ht. To say nothing of the sheer feelsbad of having a key signature unique skill be removed as a multiple-year long pala main.

 

NT is good, sure, but grinding 163 just to participate in a boss to duo / solo it really removes any element of party play. In fact, this really just turns them into NT and Scar mules.

"No need to hp wash" is a bit inaccurate, especially if someone wants to be able to comfortably participate in NT. To not die in 2h from verga, (on top of achilies / pg) you'd need what, 25k hp? Even at 18k you could still almost get 1h by nameless with max achilies.

 

Let's be fair here about the washing thing. The only real reason is if you really wanted to nameless without drk, or bigfoot at 13x (no longer relevant since shaolin is available for 4th job levelling)

2h verga is not a thing, why do you need to survive 2 hits from a boss that never attacks more than once in 4 seconds and whose every attack is easily dodgeable. The fact that we even have the privilege to consider 2h verga should say something, imagine an archer saying they want that.

Also our argument for pala buffs is always based on ht so let's not get too excited criticizing the game that we resort to such hyperbole. Fact is that paladins require heck of a lot less effort to wash than other classes.

Still doesnt excuse the class from being bad and boring after hammer nerf though :^)

 

I'm too noob to know most of NT, and there's very few resources for it. However, you make a lot more money / exp from bossing soloing / duoing, and from what I hear those bosses are soloable or duoable. Irregardless, you still generally want close to 20k to make other bosses easier more comfortable. I use so many fewer pots on cwk with hb than without because I didn't wash enough. Yes, it's among the easiest classes to wash, and you can probably get away with washing less, but it's still somewhat required.

See, the problem is hero's are better in every situation other than situations where hammer was useful or situations where you have an elemental advantage. A hero is only 10% weaker on the dpm scale than a pali, and is a lot more utilitarian. It's simply the easier class.

 

I hear cakesogood is a pog hero :^)

 

Hi, I'm a hero (I have a hero and pali at close to the same level)

 

Claiming that you buffed palis by 300% and nerfed by just 75% is not only mathematically disingenuous, it seems completely impossible considering were only considered 10% higher dpm than cleavable heroes who have all the same advantages at this time other than elements which are used in literally two areas at this point.

 

Hey would you invite me to the balance team I give great suggestions.

Summarised to help you guys~

-Pally pre-nerf
-is better than Hero in ht
depending on cleave composition if there is 2 cleavers pally is stronger.
-Also a weaker pally does more dmg then a weaker hero in horntail due to hammer having no scaling

Much Stronger in
-Scar/Targa
-area bosses crow, samurai, bigfoot
-NT Bosses
- has a much easier time levelling with weaker equips before 155 due to hammer
- slightly better in zak.
-post 155 pallies have a wider efficient range of training areas to level, such as nt and area bosses.


Hero is better

(in ht, if there is only 1 cleaver and
has very good equips)
-the better equips you have you do much more dmg in cleave situations where dmg is increased by 2x to 3x

-cwkpq
-better in grinding when have good equips
----------------------------------------------
Post Pally Nerf
-Hero is better in ht every situation
-and Cwkpq

-rage and enrage are skills replaced by potions so they cant be accounted for balancing

-Was going to switch to pally but got nerfed! but there’s an option to play both to make up for their weakness.

pally is more versatile overall even after nerf for sure! but ppl only care about horntail due to the mesos.

i suggest buffing other bosses so that the game balance does not revolve completely over horntail.

 

Lately ive been most of the time on the right side since ppl dont want to trigger 2 arms to seduce, I do cleave a bit but as I said bucc cleave is cheap dmg that adds up a bit of damage to your overall damage. Ive been doing a lot of HTs starting on the left as well and I see that even like that any bowman will do more damage than use having a more desirable party skill, so even if we get the same dpm overall in HT we will still be less valuable in the eyes of others.
BTW the cleave dmg I do is cheap dmg that makes u do more overall dmg so I see why not do it? try to snatch 4 parts as often as possible and maybe barrage ds 4 parts too, if I just need to focus the heads u also have ways of losing dmg when the head goes down and the middle is cancled, also you cant cleave always 2 heads beaceus of the same reason. About other buccs not all of them go as efficient as us, most are a it careless so they end up doing less than they could do but I dont know how much of a problem there is on that since all jobs will have ppl go lazy and do less dmg jsutifiying they are there cos they can use SE or HB or what ever.
My final thoughts is that Bucc needs more stance and more damage and they should not care about our cleave cos is as I said cheap damage. Paladins have a problem of their own and we shouldnt be held back cos they decided to screw up one of the most valuable tools they had, perhaps givin bakc a good bossing hammer would make paladin good again and then we could focus about buccaneers

 

This is all you need to know about NT, you can solo some bosses and even duo easily but 99% of the times you get nothing so as much as I love that place Im not sure how impactfull it is onverall to justify making a Paladin for this

 

we can make scar, targa, NT mule easily!!

 

What do Paladins need
Buff holy charge
Increase hammer damage to point where it’s actually useful, to preserve class identity, 100k maybe ?
Anyway this should make pallies a soild pick again, like any other class

I noticed there is demand for buccs buffs for some reason, I have no idea what they need but there lives matter

 

I think we need to either remove the HH nerf entirely or make it so it scales up levels or the range of the paladin (giving it a %). Then buff bucc damage and stance, and make SI +2 and stackable and affect mages.

 

Paladin may be a god in Scar but:

 

Yea it's pretty hilarious they made scar much harder in the same patch they nerfed paladins. Double nerf because one of the least played classes in the game was too op I suppose.

And ye NT being the "end game" for paladins is also funny to me when that place is all kinds of broken and you make about 1/20th the amount of mesos as horntail with even higher hp/level requirements. Exp is OK but that's it.

Another thing I will say is in theory if you offered job change to hero/drk I think a large majority of current high level paladins would take it in a heartbeat. If a change causes that kind of reaction maybe the change wasn't the best.

 

Its also funny that they made a damage chart on the balance aptche b4 and showed bucc at the very bottom and then now nerfed their support as well and now after messing up Paladins we may not be able to get more dmg cos we can't be better than them in any damage category but BM can do anything better and still ahve a better support.

NT I do that a lot and damng I get 90% of the time nothing to show for, I still like to do it and I will do it and get soem exp as I do it.

There was an option to change job as long as is the same class if you were a post big bang adventurer. I dont know how much ppl would change but tbh when I love a job I will stick to it even tho we get the short end of teh stick. Hopefully better times will come on next patch