Should Aufheben EV Be Higher?

gotta give these 2 classes a job tho.

 

Nearly any squad composition that fills the basic pinning and clone dispelling roles, employs proper strategy for their comp, and executes well their job's technique, even with minimal washing just to challenge thresholds, should be able to clear with 4-5 attackers, albeit perhaps with *some* high wa/matt potion usage. As brutal and unforgiving an expedition as it is, we have a thorough understanding of what we're up against, and sufficient tools at our disposal currently on Legends to take her down. To Gurk's point though, EV is dogshit, give her like a tradable int/luk/m.att eye or FS idk, but not MW

 

It’s less that NLs can’t run and more that it’s really awkward. Since a stable roster is usually formed around a core of 1 Hero/Pally, 1 Bucc, and 1 Bish, that leaves 3 attacker slots. If you want to take an NL, one of those has to be SE and now you’re left with only 1 slot for a second cleave which hurts the run time, and at most you can fit 2 NLs on the squad (again at a pretty big disadvantage during cleave phases). The ratio of endgame NL players to other classes is far more than 2:4 meaning there’s way more NLs than there are available slots, and those slots in the first place would ideally be going to paladins or shadowers anyways.

So NL can definitely run it just hurts the squad and even if a squad is willing to take the hit to accept NLs there’s not enough slots for how NL heavy the server is.

 

I know some people who host Toad runs and offer their runners apples to make the run feel less like a slog. If a Nightlord really wanted their own helm, instead of buying service, perhaps they could form their own squad and provide their attackers some apples to make the run smoother. Sure beats paying 80m for a helm, especially when you're capable of being an attacker yourself. In SE starved compositions, maybe the NL could apple to compensate for the DPM loss. I feel like there are creative workarounds people aren't thinking of or are just unwilling to employ. If NLs want to be included, isn't making use of resources in the game (attack pots) a viable approach?

I think the main problem with Auf is that it has a higher barrier for entry than most other content (high level requirement, long pre-quest, no ride-along runs to learn like HT 12 man, etc.), so it already takes a lot just to run it. To clear it requires the know-how of the fight which also has a pretty high learning curve compared to most other content. The fear of failure is real, and it's a tall order to find a group of people willing to run content they'll knowingly fail over and over again until they don't.

 

Are NLs that upset about not being first choice in a meme boss? Surely they don't have to be a top choice in EVERY boss right? Is there something that awful about finally having a boss that prefers cleavers??

Considering NLs excel in single target boss runs I don't see an issue with cleavers excelling in a cleave heavy run. That's what class differences are for and personally I'm happy seeing different classes excelling at different things like a typical fantasy RPG game.

That being said yes please raise the EV so more people will want to run Auf.

 

Wait paladin and buccs are cleavers?

 

Its not about being top choice, its about the auf meta making it a logistical nightmare to get on runs as a nightlord via standard means (things ovv suggested would work to get on a run as a NL, but its a lot of effort to do so).

 

Even if NL gets relatively better in the auf I still believe that the motivation would soon pass, and that I would need something that lets you loot more than one helmet, but I don't know how that could happen..

 

could be NL hate going on. :"D

 

The main issue with this current situation is it splits the already small Auf runner pool into two groups: those who have a helm and can sell for EV, and those who do not and want to run for the helm. The problems of putting together a squad are exacerbated by the fact that you have to commit to one of these two groups, and if you are a helm group you will slowly lose runners over time when they finish theirs.

If the EV were to be naturally increased, the runner pools could be merged and putting together a squad could be easier potentially. Or it could just exacerbate the problem who knows?

I do think the fact that the already tiny pool of Auf runners is split into two distinct and incompatible groups is not ideal though and makes hosting incredibly difficult.

Also as mentioned by Lin on discord, I think the hardest part of running with NLs or hosting as a NL is often finding a capable SE to run with as the pool of strong and skilled archers looking to run Auf is even smaller than Paladin.

 

Agreed. The tedious nature of the fight for some classes and emphasis on the main incentive to run being the helmet itself makes the run into a “get in and get out” type deal. Unless you play the correct class that’s allowed to have fun, the fight is very much a slog and there’s little reason to stay once your helmet is done, which only worsens the issues for the remaining players trying to run.

I would say that the issues with Auf are both an EV problem as well as a fight design problem. The fight itself I think could use changes to make it more accessible to certain classes and/or make it less of a slog but I'm not sure how many people agree. It's a very divisive issue, and I know there are some players who are adamant the fight is fun, but there's definitely a large contingent of those who very vocally believe otherwise and I think the constant attrition rate of runners we've experienced since the inception of the fight proves that there are definitely issues with retention and many people just do not want to run, for whatever reason.

 

am i the only nl player that wants to purchase service

 

Which is why I host training runs for newbies every Sunday reset +2. I will train everyone and anyone that is willing to learn. My goals are beyond your understanding

 

your mental is far stronger than my own

 

u r the savior of the server and all NLs who just need an auf helm and they wont re-appear after they finished the helm.

 

NLs should be required to do 1 run of "community service" of running on 1 other "required" class for each run they get to be on on their NL

 

Auf’s a rare opportunity for ML to have a more engaging boss that goes beyond a glorified stat-check. Every death in Auf is high-stakes and her clone/healing mechanic leaves a lot of room for strategy which makes her exciting to run. I would really hate to see changes that turn her into yet another “me hold attack long time” boss where playing poorly just adds like 10 additional minutes to your clear speed. While the old orb DP definitely had to go due to almost entirely excluding mages and low hp chars, I think her current iteration that traded the DP for raw bonus dmg is a rushed solution. The fight turned way more afk, and the HP wash requirement for certain chars went up because they can’t survive as many balls as before during the unavoidable sed.

Her EV is already quite high for a meta squad that’s selling helms. I wouldn’t be surprised if 35 minute apple-less 5-man clear were possible, I’ve witnessed close to 40 minute clears. I worry that if Auf’s EV were further buffed, people would start pressuring BT to make the fight too accessible i.e. braindead for 30k funded chars