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Balance Changes: 16/02/2020

Discussion in 'Update Notes' started by Hiyo, Feb 16, 2020.

  1. OP
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    Hiyo
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    Hiyo Headless Horseman Retired Staff

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    Sushi? What's that? OnionF6
     
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  2. Selquin
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    Selquin Headless Horseman

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    On the topic of mannequin nerfs, I generally agree with the reasoning. In particular the duo summon afk farming method (of which I am one of the most severe abusers of) probably pushes it over the edge. As much as I enjoyed my free 5-6m an hour from doing almost nothing, such an incredibly powerful afk farming method should probably not be allowed to exist. It would only be a matter of time before the strategy became mainstream and all mannequin channels are filled with afk farmers.

    That said, a complete mannequin nerf has far greater implications than just chasing the summon farmers out, in particular this change further centralizes the "mage meta" that dominates ML. Mannequins was one of the only consistent ways for a low-mid level non-mage player to make money, the removal of this will have major consequences.
     
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  3. Skuire
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    Skuire Nightshadow

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    +1.
    Mannies have been busted from the start, it's true. But the map gave hundreds of new and unfunded players a foothold to jump into the game and make some decent meso without falling into the "make a mage and sell leech" meme.

    If we want to nerf mannies, let's please try and improve the alternatives. I know Unity drastically buffed the Deep Ludi maps/mobs and improved their drop tables with good scrolls - something like that might be a good start.
     
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  4. Teaddict
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    Teaddict Mushmom

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    This is why we can't have nice things. FoxF4FoxXD
     
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  5. postcard
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    postcard Selkie Jr.

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    Hard agree with what Alyosha/Skar/Sku have said.

    Considering how low mobility warriors are and how mannequins are THE place for warriors to train through third job, this just feels like an unfair (perhaps unintended?) hit to them. Meanwhile, it won't affect mages (teleport) or night lords (flash jump). In fact, it probably improves the map for night lords. I've seen some comments on how it isn't fair for warriors to just braindead Slash Blast through levels, but clerics play the same holding-one-button-down game at GS2. Seems like the lack of efficient training spot will just drive warriors to buy leech instead, which is a shame when they were one of the the classes that could get through third job on their own without doing so.

    If summon farmers are the big problem here, why not just make summons unsummonable in these maps?

    Also interesting: NT monster buffs. Nice for NTPQ, but few people actually grind the other monsters there aside from melee classes (warriors) due to the high damage these monsters deal and the generally awful layout of the maps. Unless you want this area to be kept to melee optimal, a damage decrease would be nice. Or maybe a HP nerf to the monsters? It's pretty hard to farm there as ranged.

    Anyway good luck to all the warriors that want to get to NT level to grind them for EXP/drops without one of the best training spots for them in the game!!
     
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  6. ColdHearts
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    ColdHearts Slime

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    I have mixed feelings about the shaolin temple nerf. Here's what i think: this nerf was a huge slap to people who are washing. I get the fact we are trying to limit leeching as much as possible as it takes away the fun of grinding, but how are you suppose to grind with a 200+ base Int NL for example lmao. Do I think the safespots were unfair? sure, because there are no other leeching maps where you can just stand in 1 spot and press a button. Duo leeching at temple was nuts, crazy EXP/hr (coming from a person that experienced temple when it first came out). My point is, because hp washing is such a big deal, it makes grinding end game spots a lot harder for most of us until we finish washing, so we resort to leeching.
     
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  7. kalash
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    kalash Headless Horseman

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    You're not supposed to make a 200+ int nightlord

    To shed some light: I grinded my NL and didn't find out about washing until lvl 100 or so. I did some mp washing and went pretty nuts (120 base int) from 140-170 (without leeching) and I'm at 10k hp now, which is more than enough so far
     
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  8. MrPresident
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    MrPresident Capt. Latanica

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    Don’t think mannequins nerf was a good idea. In regards to afk summon farming all this does is move afk farming to other maps. In regards to high levels doing event farming there I viewed that as a trade off. You tradeoff gaining less exp to gain more mesos and event drops which doesn’t seem unfair to me.

    I am glad to see NT getting some buffs at least. Wish it could be something that rivals HT in terms of mesos for the bosses and Shaolin in terms of exp. Variety in the endgame is pretty lacking currently imo with only HT and cwkpq being worth doing.

    Also where’s the S U S H I
     
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  9. aaronis
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    aaronis Slimy

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    Thank god shaolin finally got nerfed. The number of botters in that map was too damn high. Also happy for these mannie changes because god auto aggro was so annoying on my nl i just wanted to jump around and bop stuff to abuse for event items without these annoying boys clumping up.
     
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  10. Althariisa
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    Althariisa Slimy

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    So if we talking about potencial money farming afk nerf, why not just nerf the rate of equips/mesos there?. instead to take the auto aggro if that was the purpose?

    i think its just not right to nerf the grinding rate because of the afk farmers.
     
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  11. Danna
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    Danna Slime

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    An earthqueen doing amazing balancing. we stan <3_<3
     
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  12. Teaddict
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    Teaddict Mushmom

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    I love this idea! That might actually work! Idk if there are other AFK-farming methods that would still need to be addressed though.
     
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  13. Althariisa
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    Althariisa Slimy

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    kek afk farmers for heartstoppers in voodoos kek
     
  14. MrPresident
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    MrPresident Capt. Latanica

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    Or make it so monsters killed by summons don’t drop anything OnionMuha
     
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  15. Skuire
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    Skuire Nightshadow

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    game changer.
     
  16. Althariisa
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    Althariisa Slimy

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    the best idea i ever heard. who will miss using summons to farm anyways? i guess that idea will generate less controversy.
     
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  17. thugric
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    thugric Capt. Latanica Retired Staff

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    here's the level of impact for these exp changes
    upload_2020-2-16_17-15-46.png
     
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  18. postcard
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    postcard Selkie Jr.

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    they already don't drop event etcs, shouldn't be hard to take it one step further SlimeSmile
     
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  19. Althariisa
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    Althariisa Slimy

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    My question, how grinding its viable in NT? because the only map that is good to grind from my experience is Odaiba 2100. because the closeness of the mobs and everthinig but the else maps? my my. i see this exp change not very handful for anything. and no one likes dunas so... YOLO
     
  20. RegalStar
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    RegalStar Nightshadow

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    On mannequins, while it does severely nerfs warrior training in late 2nd/early 3rd, I would argue that warriors (and brawlers and possibly I/L wizards) being able to level like this is a little bit over the top. For 50-55 I was doing windraiders and I was getting like 1.3-1.5m eph, which is still a lot more than GS leech and IIRC just as fast, if not faster, than when my then-cleric was levelling there as well. Also, CDs are generally really good experience too and can easily outmatch GS levelling, and mannequins still have crazy HP/exp ratios anyways.

    On NT, I would like to say that the buffs are for the most part pretty useless. NTPQ really benefits from the +20% exp but people were already doing it and you can only do it for less than 40 minutes per day anyways. On the other NT maps - the only maps that are really viable are 2100 Odaiba and 2102 Akiba Rooftops (no one wants to deal with reverse control when training, and airship deck is waaaaay too big and sprase), but Odaiba spawn is very slow unless your killing speed is slow, not to mention dealing with a million status ailments thrown your way is annoying, and Rooftop is large and a bitch to navigate especially with the inability to down jump. And Dunas experience increase must be some kind of bad joke - he needs to give out at least like 4m exp (before 2x) to be considered kinda mediocre, and like at least 6-7m to be anywhere near decent.
     
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