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Important New System for White Scrolls (Feedback Thread)

Discussion in 'MapleLegends Announcements' started by Nise, Jul 6, 2021.

How do you feel about the Prestigious Coin system?

Poll closed Jul 14, 2021.
  1. Strongly support

    190 vote(s)
    34.4%
  2. Slightly support

    130 vote(s)
    23.6%
  3. Neutral

    90 vote(s)
    16.3%
  4. Slightly oppose

    71 vote(s)
    12.9%
  5. Strongly oppose

    71 vote(s)
    12.9%
  1. Jaynus
    Offline

    Jaynus Timer

    103
    12
    125
    Mar 19, 2020
    Male
    10:44 PM
    Dralith
    Beginner, Camper, Islander
    58
    I urge you to try multi-mage farming before coming to such conclusions. You'll be lucky to get 5m/hr per mage with good rng. Most of the time you'll get wrecked by rng and get no good drops.
    This is in addition to paying 250m per mage for lvl 20-120 leech and the grind you'll need to do from 120-130. That's 50 hours of meso farming you'll need to do just to break even and the constant fear of nerfs hovering above us. I haven't even taken into account the opportunity cost of said 50 hours.

    If multi-mage farming is as bad as I say then why do people still do it, you may ask.

    1) Flexibility - Selling leech is a commitment. Buyers are hard to find at times. Selling at a slight mark up because you have pog eph? Buyers say nty. Doing package? Not many can sit for hours on end. If you take a break, your leechers will start asking questions. Compared to multi-mage farming where you can start and stop whenever you want. This might even be a double edged sword for people with poor self discipline; you end up doing much lesser hours.


    2) Mapowner - ULU1, ULU2 ( there's dungeon), Cornians, ML1, Vikerola, Harps are all farmable maps that are almost always available (with the exception of ULU2 which can get fully crowded during peak hrs). 0 fear of losing map owner.

    When you take all of these into account and consider that 1hit skeles earn about ~18m ish trio (someone double confirm this after sweeper nerfs), the mesos that multi-mage farming earn can hardly be seen as 'completely broken'. If after this there are still people that feel multimage farmering is OP, then let me ask you why. Why are you not doing it? Fear of nerfs after spending 1b on mages? Lack of skill? On the topic of skill, multi-mage farming requires you to shift your hand placement every rotation or be forced to use awkward keys to control your characters (iykyk), have decent multi-tasking and focus (diffuculty level is up to the individual). Shouldn't this 'skill' that not everyone has be rewarded? I know of people that have good multi-tasking abilities farming multiple maps using non mages. Should they be nerfed too? Some people are even selling low level leech while in HT. If they have the skill to do it, should they be nerfed too?

    Sounds like the players actively campaigning for multi-mage farming to be nerfed just don't want to put in the effort or have the ability to pull off such tactics and are salty/FOMO. Is this strategy conducive for the game? I'll be the first one to say that it is not. Why I'm doing it is because of the prices of end game items. 1hit skeles/petri/5-6 used to be the gold standard for earning mesos, but with the prices of end game items going up with no end in sight, players are forced to explore new strategies that involve drastically more effort to do, for marginal gains. When the profitability of bossing improves to a decent level and prices of end game items comes down to a reasonable level, I'll be the first to retire my mages for the sake of my mental health.

    This strategy is not for the players that cannot tolerate the very real possibility of 0 return on investment and semi-intense multi-tasking. Stop whining and adapt, if not, at the least don't be a sheep and propegate inaccurate views.
     
    • Agree Agree x 9
  2. ma3ohma3
    Offline

    ma3ohma3 Chronos

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    Mar 5, 2021
    7:44 PM
    When that happens, I will papu, zak, HT, krex, rav and yadayada on quad attackers :D
     
    • Like Like x 1
    • Agree Agree x 1
  3. Cerulean
    Offline

    Cerulean Brown Teddy

    61
    15
    70
    Apr 13, 2020
    Male
    5:44 AM
    I agree with your main point that a lot of people make false assumptions about multi-mage farming without ever having tried it, but unless you're not counting the value of everything that drops, you should definitely be earning more than 5m/mage.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  4. Jaynus
    Offline

    Jaynus Timer

    103
    12
    125
    Mar 19, 2020
    Male
    10:44 PM
    Dralith
    Beginner, Camper, Islander
    58
    I dont count gacha and small things that adds up to < 100k per hour. Kinda similar to how other leech income is calculated so I guess that is fair
     
  5. yurain
    Offline

    yurain Windraider

    420
    95
    301
    Dec 30, 2019
    7:44 PM
    YUrain
    I/L Wizard
    55
    The current understanding is that, multi mage farming is causing inflation in the market due to the raw meso generated. This even further worsen the already expensive end game market in addition to the aging population. This inflation in turn destorying everyone else's gaming experience. Either join the multi mage farm and inflation everything further, or just get left behind and go somewhere else.

    The nerf to multi-mage farming is so that it won't further inflate the market even further with the extreme meso farming.
     
  6. UnknownCode
    Offline

    UnknownCode Nightshadow

    677
    229
    350
    Jun 6, 2021
    California
    3:44 AM
    Islander, Bishop, Bandit
    0
    Speenies
    Yes, this thanks for posting this I was about to mention it somewhat similar to what you said.
     
  7. Jaynus
    Offline

    Jaynus Timer

    103
    12
    125
    Mar 19, 2020
    Male
    10:44 PM
    Dralith
    Beginner, Camper, Islander
    58
    Please don't call it 'extreme'. It is actually not as bad as you think it is. Refer to my previous post.

    Also from my previous comment, I've explained that you can't pinpoint multi-mage farming as the ONLY reason for inflation. Again, please refer to my previous post.

    If you want to continue this debate, you need to critique my comments and give me new points to debate on. Please don't continue to spew the same old narratives.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
    • Disagree Disagree x 1
  8. Jaynus
    Offline

    Jaynus Timer

    103
    12
    125
    Mar 19, 2020
    Male
    10:44 PM
    Dralith
    Beginner, Camper, Islander
    58
    Personal data collected from ML1 (4 mages)

    Worse case scenario, 12m/hr. Mesos from floor, npc, assuming 0 PoT, 0 scrolls. 1 stack of mana bulls per mage per hour.

    Best case scenario:
    19m/hr. Everything the same but 1 helm Dex 60 and 3 PoT.

    Maybe I just have tragic rng
     
  9. Cerulean
    Offline

    Cerulean Brown Teddy

    61
    15
    70
    Apr 13, 2020
    Male
    5:44 AM
    May I ask how many hours you've spent farming this map? Your best case scenario seems more like average, if not slightly below average, drops.

    On another note about gach: I personally am not very sure what the true EV of gach tickets is right now, but it's definitely a significant share of multi-mage farming profits and one of many reasons that bossing profits fall short.
     
  10. akashsky
    Offline

    akashsky Horntail

    2,029
    847
    495
    Jun 10, 2017
    Male
    United States
    3:44 AM
    Disparity
    Corsair
    200
    Pasta
    I averaged about 28-29m / hr from a large sample size of many hours farming memory lane1. Excluding gacha, average profits were still ~23m / hr

    I got about 5 PoT / hr, and 1.5 helmet dex 60s / hr on average.
     
    • Informative Informative x 2
  11. Jaynus
    Offline

    Jaynus Timer

    103
    12
    125
    Mar 19, 2020
    Male
    10:44 PM
    Dralith
    Beginner, Camper, Islander
    58
    Easily 10 hours. Got a total of 6 helm Dex 60 and 20 PoT. Even if we count gach into the EV of multi-mage farming, it still isn't as wonderful as what some people might make us believe
     
  12. -ovv
    Offline

    -ovv Horntail

    2,222
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    Feb 23, 2020
    Male
    3:44 AM
    -ovv
    Beginner
    200
    Honor
    The problem with a vanilla server is that eventually, people get bored of the limited content if played in the intended format - single client, single character. Multiclienting brings a new approach to playing, but eventually, multiclienting on more and more clients becomes the only way to add a new element to this otherwise flat game.

    Multimage farming is an issue because it is meta-shifting. Staff needed to take an extreme stance in order to slow down the conversion rate of players towards this meta.
    The reality is more and more people will progress towards these degenerate styles of multiclienting as the server ages, especially if no other meaningful content is available. If you funnel any means of progress into one play style - magestory - it's to be expected that most people will eventually turn to these types of strategies, no matter how boring or 'sweaty' it is.
     
    • Agree Agree x 3
    • Disagree Disagree x 2
  13. ma3ohma3
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    ma3ohma3 Chronos

    87
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    Mar 5, 2021
    7:44 PM
    Hence make bossing great again with this system BUT DEGENERATES WILL ALWAYS DEGEN. Make bossing great and ppl start min-maxing bossing with lesser runners.
     
    • Like Like x 2
  14. Thuglifer
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    Thuglifer Capt. Latanica

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    Sep 1, 2021
    Male
    7:44 PM
    Beginner
    imagine limiting HT signing to 1 entry per day in hopes for higher valued splits kek.
     
  15. Thuglifer
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    Thuglifer Capt. Latanica

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    Sep 1, 2021
    Male
    7:44 PM
    Beginner
    Personally i feel coins shouldn't be tradeable at all if the intension was to change existing ws/cs into untradeable, but that's just me. And maybe if coins are untradeable, perhaps switch coin from boss drops to npc reward upon exiting the map (based on total damage dealt in a segmented way via a trenching system, similar to how MCPQ exit npc rewards exp and almost every boss runs has an exit npc already). This way, players would have to actively participate (deal dmg) to receive coins. No idea if this has been suggested prior but the thread is way too lengthy to read all. But since bosses like HT has drops with a maxed assigned quantity (i.e. 5 htp), we could also assign the max coins per HT run (10 for example) basing the quantity of coins on the difficulty and hp/def worth of the boss. Meaning different bosses with different hp will have different max attainable coins per run. When 10 is the max attainable coins per run, players will not be able to in total, earn more than 10, where the top contributing dealer would naturally get more coins/reward than others. Which also allows for bonus coins during events (+10% total coin).

    Example (cap of coins per boss based on total HP):
    >
    300m dmg dealt (100% hp of boss) = 10 coins (100% coin rewards)
    200m - 150m dmg dealt (66% ~ 50%) = 7 coins (70%)
    150m - 100m dmg dealt (50% ~ 10%) = 5 coins (50%)
    ...
    2m - 0m dmg dealt (0.006...%) = 0 coins (0%)
     
    • Disagree Disagree x 3
  16. Ainz
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    Ainz Zakum

    1,666
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    May 2, 2015
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    Netherlands
    12:44 PM
    So many I keep forgetting
    0
    This system would be thoroughly appreciated by NLs and other DPS classes, but bishops/support classes won't exactly appreciate it.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  17. Thuglifer
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    Thuglifer Capt. Latanica

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    Sep 1, 2021
    Male
    7:44 PM
    Beginner
    pretty sure bishops have a larger pool of splits % and could be further increased by organisers to compensate for the less coins attained but i guess these support classes can rejoin other runs with less high dmg dealers
     
    • Disagree Disagree x 1
  18. Ainz
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    Ainz Zakum

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    12:44 PM
    So many I keep forgetting
    0
    It would make balancing splits vs coins gained a tedious concept. Bishops aren't the only ones suffering, but also single-target damage dealers in cleave bosses and vice-versa.
    (Percentage of) damage done just isn't a fitting heuristic imo.
     
  19. Thuglifer
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    Thuglifer Capt. Latanica

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    7:44 PM
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    well single target dealers can always go to single target bossers? or more splits
     
    • Creative Creative x 1
  20. Nightz
    Online

    Nightz Supervisor Staff Member Supervisor Game Moderator

    1,751
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    Oct 22, 2020
    Male
    12:44 PM
    Nightz
    I/L Arch Mage
    200
    Funk & Pasta
    Moderator Post
    Kinda sounds like you haven't read much of the thread but I wonder what makes you think that the problem of having prestigious coins tradeable will be?
    They will simply become a part of the loot and will be sold by the host of the run in order to give out splits to the runners. I don't see how this can possibly be muled or sold in a service, it's not like people bring mules to horntail to get more MW20?? because the amount of mules in a map don't affect anything.

    It'll be up the host and runners how they divide their splits but having the coins tradeable and drop from the boss like how they have been dropping this past time seems like the most fair way of introducing this system.
     

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