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Suggestion to economy

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Nachthexen, Jul 28, 2023.

  1. Subterlabor
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    Subterlabor Headless Horseman

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    Good for you then, I have dogshit rng. lol
     
  2. beegoratto
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    beegoratto Zakum

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    What does this mean? Are you trying to say you spend double in pots killing Rav/Pap than you get back in drops? As a BM? You can solo both of those with maybe 10 MP pots and 0 HP pots.
     
  3. fartsy
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    fartsy Zakum

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    i read the wrong lib entry for pap LOL but yeah idk then bc logistics is hell
     
  4. Subterlabor
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    Subterlabor Headless Horseman

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    no of course not lol. I moreso mean the profit from drops at pap/rav is negligable at best
     
  5. Palladino
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    Palladino Master Chronos

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    This is a bit of a side note to the main discussion, but I think you might be greatly underestimating the income earned vs the time/effort spent from pap/rav.
     
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  6. -ovv
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    -ovv Horntail

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    What even is midgame? If it's simply a matter of levels, just go do content that nets you exp so you can access more profitable bosses and increase your earning potential. This has always been the strategy from day 1. Midgame players complaining about not being able to WS their timeless weapon is hilarious.

    Pouches being added made bossing comparable to grinding/farming, so you can either grind and make mesos at 7F or you can go boss and make mesos that way. If you're losing mesos while doing content, you should look at your own habits and figure out what you're doing wrong, or ask someone else for help instead of complaining about it here.

    This reminds me of the conversation we had in forums a few months ago where a mage was complaining about losing mesos while grinding.
     
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  7. beegoratto
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    beegoratto Zakum

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    I agree. Even at 19x I would be doing daily Pap and Rav at some points, and I know other 200 players who also run it regularly. Over the long term it pays out fine for time spent.

    Another side note, a lot of players who say “I haven’t seen a pouch drop in 30 runs” most likely don’t actually track their drops. The odds of going 30 runs without a pouch are like 1/1000. Biased memory and hyperbole like saying Pap/Rav are a waste of time and pots would probably turn most players off of taking someone seriously.
     
    Last edited: Aug 1, 2023
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  8. fartsy
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    fartsy Zakum

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    i think earlygame ends at 120 bc most content, quests, etc were targeted for <=120
    120-135 is just some weird spot
    midgame is more like 135-175+ rn
    early endgame starts when ws10 becomes the cheapest efficient upgrade (10 ws = 5 wa) and ends after gloves are finished (10 ws = 3 wa for 21 gloves)
    mid endgame is prob around 23 gloves so 10 ws = 1 wa (21->23 glove upgrade or equivalents)
    after that i'm not too sure lol
     
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  9. CaptainNemo
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    CaptainNemo Slimy

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    Considering we OssLock goons can duo Pap sub 15 minutes, normal players should be able to do it even faster. Pot usage shouldn't be a concern really, I'm a level 128 Ranger and the pot burn is barely noticable (sub 100-200 ice pops total per run is average, depends on how many times he 1/1's and hides). I imagine Rav is similar. Great content that should net you virtually free coins. If you're going negative from it, think you might just be doing something wrong.
     
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  10. fartsy
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    fartsy Zakum

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    let's zak
     
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  11. LeonardoJF
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    LeonardoJF Horntail

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    rav pinneed is always less
     
  12. kiwiz
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    kiwiz Skelegon

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    What is considered mid-game to you? To me, the mid-game phase typically starts after 3rd job, at level 70, and continues until level 135 when I can start participating in Zakum runs. During this phase, the main focus is on gearing up sufficiently to efficiently grind levels. I always choose grinding areas that provide a net positive meso gain.

    Until level 120, I would likely be using equipment like 8-10 wa gloves, 4-6 stats with 2-3 wa cape, 14-20 stats bathrobe, and a level 64 maple weapon scrolled with an additional 12-17 wa. These items provide the most value for damage and require no secondary stats, allowing me to focus on primary stats for increased damage output. They are relatively cheap and easy to obtain, often acquired as byproducts from players attempting to scroll better or clearing their old equipment.

    When evaluating character strength, I usually consider how much I spend on each equipment slot. For the current market, I find that armor and accessories at 100-250mil each to be considered very decent, while 250-400 mil to be end-game worthy. Weapon (and shield if applicable), on the other hand, can range up to 1.5 billion mesos, with anything beyond considered luxury upgrades where WS/CS comes into play.

    How much would you consider to be "a lot of time"? I consider spending about 1-2 hours per weekday as casual gameplay. It’s like a relaxation period after work and other daily tasks, on average of 10-15 hours per week. At this rate, I expect to create a 4th job character within 2-3 months. From there, I can start farming more efficiently.

    With a 10mil/hour farming rate, I can achieve very decent setup in the next 5 months and end-game-worthy gear in another 5 months. As I progress and become more efficient, the time needed to reach my end-game gears will decrease. I find reaching the end-game worthy setup in a year of casual play to be quite acceptable, which is also within the period where I get to experience a full cycle of events. You can expect to earn more during events as well, further reducing the time.

    I think one of the current issues in the market is the lack of materials to scroll items, mainly due to them dropping in unpopular areas. While I have the option to hunt for these drops myself, it often proves to be less efficient than farming in meta areas with consistent earnings. Therefore it’s often better to wait for someone to eventually sell scrolled items.
     
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  13. yurain
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    yurain Windraider

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    Low level bosses dropping pouch actually give you a finite timelength which you can complete your +7 weapon even if you literally just papu/rav everyday. However long it might.
    With the drop rate, you can literally math out the months/years/decades you need to complete the weapon lol, assuming you/the game sticks around for that long.
     
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  14. Tarnished
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    Tarnished Selkie Jr.

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    IME if you document your gains and value everything in mesos (gach, nx, exp, etc) you can farm just about anywhere and make at least 10mil/hr - which is a decent rate of progression for mid game.

    Pap/Rav does not beat spamming arrow rain at Jr. Wraiths - which IMO is a general trend across all of ML where the majority of boss content is not as rewarding for the time as single-client farming, much less multi-client. I would venture a guess that it's hard to balance better drops for bosses because of DPM/mule discrepancy across the player base, but currently it's not a great player experience especially for early/mid game where folks group up for a large party boss that doesn't even break even on pot costs.
     
    Last edited: Jul 31, 2023
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  15. -ovv
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    -ovv Horntail

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    Probably not going to be the words that a new player wants to hear, but most of these different player experiences are probably based on the player skill differences and willingness to learn and grow. If Player A does the same thing over and over again and yields no better results, they are likely to complain that the system is broken and needs fixing. Whereas Player B who tries something new each time and learns from their past mistakes will have a completely different outlook on life.

    You might think Pap/Rav is not profitable, but there are people out there that have tons of run data to prove otherwise.

    I myself have extensive Zak run data, and if players are not breaking even on pot costs, they're overspending on pots.
     
    Last edited: Aug 1, 2023
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  16. beegoratto
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    beegoratto Zakum

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    There's a lot to be said about how players approach problems. Players who try to find solutions and ask others for advice will generally find themselves in more advantages positions than those who immediately assume there is a systemic issue that cannot be worked around.
     
  17. Trion
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    Trion Capt. Latanica

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    Or you can just do what I do and give up on the perfect weapon dream and spam 30s instead and sulk about it.
     
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  18. Ferluci
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    Ferluci Zakum Retired Staff

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    I'm sorry but how bad are you that you can't make good profit of rav pap. I rav pap daily and make millions every day while my pot costs are like 20 pots at max. Mostly used at pap when I puppet and in the beginning.

    Seems like a huge skill issue kekw.
     
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  19. beegoratto
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    beegoratto Zakum

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    You can actually avoid using pots even during puppet. Just run out of range when puppet starts blinking and keep hamstring up and he can’t even hit you during the puppet window.
     
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  20. Ferluci
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    Ferluci Zakum Retired Staff

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    Yes but that requires attention and I play BM to just hold shift.
     
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