How long are you allowed to hold an HT channel?

I think the KPQ and LPQ comparisons are fair in theory but miss a couple of things, and I think that those differences get us to the heart of the issue:

1) getting into the cave is itself a commitment. after not getting a run in yesterday, you've got to pick between leaving and wasting a elixir and thereby like an hour of your time, or parking in the cave until your next run. so it's not like there's no consequences for your run getting scrapped.
2) these are long runs and if they're all starting at reset, everyone's going in at once. So it's likely that you're sitting around for 90 minutes before any channels open... if you get rushed on your LPQ channel, there's going to be another one opening pretty darn soon because every run is like 20 minutes.
3) You can organize an LPQ by rolling into the tower and throwing up a quick "R" and getting a party together pretty much immediately. Planning HT takes a lot of time and finagling unless you're 1337 enough to have a recurring six-man or whatever it is those folks do.
4) You can only run twice per reset, so if I want to run at 10:00 p.m. ST, I have to hope that my whole 10-man hasn't gone in the last 22 hours, which is unlikely.

so yes, horntail is special in certain ways.

Re: the comparisons to leech... i don't participate in leech. i grind my characters. and it's a pain in the butt when someone's sitting there holding a map and you're trying to train on Windraiders or something like that.

Put these two things together (LPQ comparisons and leech comparisons) and you get this:

The thing that matters to me is "does the system as it stands allow a lot of people to play the game and have fun?" In KPQ and LPQ, the system has certain allowances (easy access, short runs, easy to organize, you can run whenever you want) that allow people to get in and out. It doesn't necessarily let you run 10 consecutive runs if it's a popular time, but folks will get in. (And "popular times" don't come up so often because reset doesn't matter for LPQ). In Leech, the Mapowner system does inhibit a maximum number of people from using the map -- because you can sit and hold it for however long you like and nobody can do anything about it. So that system also inhibits the maximum number of people participating because folks can abuse one of the game's systems.

So what I think that we need is a way to move HT out of the Leech category and toward the LPQ/KPQ territory. We need in-game systems that make the runs easier to access mechanically. I don't mean "make HT easier" or something like this; I mean fewer obstacles to the run itself.

By nature of HT, we can't make it shorter or make the groups less complicated. That's fine. Maybe there's a way to finagle the 2x/reset rule (I'm not thinking unlimited runs, but finding some way to prevent the massive bottleneck that happens at that particular time) and maybe there's a way to make the quest less cumbersome. These systems would allow more people to get in at various times and maybe resolve the issue a bit.

Because of the user spike, more people are going to start HTing soon and this is only going to get worse. I'm HTing these days because it's a fun thing to do in my house, but I'm not going to keep doing it if it's stressful each time.

 

Can any GMs tell us how long we're actually allowed to hold HT maps for and under what conditions? Seems like you guys have just left us to fight it out ourselves without providing any answers with actual substance.How long are we allowed to hold HT maps? Is it still griefing if I want to run 5 hours later?

inb4 Going to close this thread for time being since its only getting bumped with no contributions anymore. If we have something to say than we'll do that.

 

You just created a logical fallacy based off an anecdotal experience because you don't have a sound argument or compelling evidence to support your stance.

You also mention to walk in the shoes of the people being "sniped" in the most conceited and obnoxious way possible. However, you fail to look at it in the other side's perspective when asking the opposing side to do the same. Both sides took the effort to organize and be punctual. There's no reason why one squad should be able to run two times while the other run none. Your entitled views make it sound like the game and the community owes you the privilege to run whenever you want.

 

No offense but i'm 1000000000% certain that everyone playing this nostalgic mushroom game from 2003 is old enough to rationalize and add more to the meta conversation than they were able to back when they were younger (myself included).

Since we're listing down all the branches of thought, might as well list down a few more:

-We have economic analyses based on gacha rng, and item market values/trends
-Social science demology based on leech/solo grinding/bossing/personality of players you find on ML
-by extension -Characterology based on how big of a chad/sweatlord/roleplayer/mule/islander/whatever a mapler is
-Gender studies based on how to tell a girl from a G.I.R.L (guy in real life)
-Bibliology based on questing and the maplestory lore
-Hoplology based on the effectiveness of weapons, weapon types and + SI
-Melology based on the songs found in Maplestory and how great the soundtrack is (Orbis Station BGM for life)

What else but to say.. thank you for coming to my TEDTalk

 

Stay tuned for the CFP for my forthcoming first annual Maple Studies conference... "Dangerous Taxi: Political-Economic Convergences of Nostalgias in the Mapleverse"

 

Why do we wanna give other classes more balls just because we lack some

 

The real question is this:
If people can sell mapownership, why can't people sell HT channels?

 

because with the current system, you can't actually own a channel.

There's been some debate about adding a dummy mob for people to be able to @mapowner the HT map - ergo own the HT channel, but then this would just open the floodgates to people camping and outright holding the map/channel for hours/days/weeks/months on end.

The better question to answer is, how do we ensure equal and fair treatment to all who wishes to Horntail?. Considering timezones are a real thing and the earth is not flat, is a queing system justifiable and also implementable? if not, then how?

 

This is probably a bad time to ask but is there gonna be a 12 hour timer HT bug in the near future, and would I get in trouble staying the full 12 hours

 

I’m not a lawyer so I’m probably going to step in it for getting into the language here.

The griefing definition Nise gave implies that certain actions in regular gameplay can disrupt other players’ experience, but if done with the intent of playing the game, that’s not griefing. So if all of the Windraider maps are taken and I want to grind at Windraiders, I’m out of luck. I’ve been negatively affected by regular gameplay; nobody did it to hurt me specifically. OK - I’m willing to accept this.

I think that the extension of the conversation is relevant, though, because it’s where we’re tracking the kind of negative effect on other players that comes from malicious intent, rather than an attempt to play the game. The issue is that HT invites a lot of grey areas.

If I intend to run one hour after reset, and I hold a channel starting from half an hour before reset, hitting the timer every five minutes, am I disrupting other people’s gameplay for the sake of it, or because I intend to play? I could argue that I plan to play eventually, but I’m also obstructing gameplay for an unreasonable amount of time. In my experience, people in this server take everything to the absolute limit the game will allow — and so this is not an unrealistic hypothetical I don’t think.

I think what we’re looking for is one of two things:

1) How staff chooses to assess what sort of intent they’re looking at.
1a) How players are expected to predict staff’s assessments of intent so that they don’t get caught with their pants down thinking they were in-bounds when they were not. As in, with hard-and-fast rules.
2) How HT can be changed, if at all, to prevent these two categories of intent — A) people can be prevented from playing through the normal course of gameplay and B) people can be prevented from playing through griefing — from overlapping in a high-stakes situation like Horntail.

 

You snooze you lose

 

Geez I'm thankful that the Malaysia/Singapore nighttime HT runs aren't affected by this fuckery

Anyway, it seems like we are banking on many unofficial rules and grey areas concerning the official rules to determine legitimacy of "channel ownerships" for HT and meting out punishment. But this becomes a slippery slope so fast in so many directions...personally can't see it working out without all out guild smega wars (that's nostalgic tho ). Because everyone's interpretation of the rules could vary easily. If you wanna make matters worse, between two groups with language barriers, you can't even negotiate and talk about the rules properly. It's just going to be frustrating if there's no cut and dry rule.

IMO the best but most inelegant way to solve this is have extra channels that you can only cc to in HT cave. Dumb I know, just brainstorming though.

I'm gonna need the link to this ty (for a friend)

 

if you think that's bad... imagine being in the australasian pacific. its a nightmare finding enough people to cobble a run with. I either need to be up at night or no runs at all

You're going to have to make an account to access this information here

 

You got it backwards, the asians are missing out on the pog content! HT is so much more fun on weekends when there are 5 squads eyeing all the channels. You can CC through the channels on a cave mule during your HT run and watch people screeching and threatening to report each other, its free high quality entertainment!

 

I’m definitely a G.I.R.L.

 

Btw, HT channels were essentially empty today.

 

Isn’t all of this true for people holding leech or area boss maps as well? I’ve seen people hold leech maps (and area boss maps) while HTing on another client for example which is still preventing players from using the map so the HTer could use it eventually. Are the rules going to extend to people holding those maps for extended periods or is this a boss specific rule?