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Why are APR's so heavily time gated?

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by badoomshi, Sep 15, 2023.

  1. badoomshi
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    badoomshi Red Snail

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    8:36 PM
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    Genuine question. Is there a reason why we're making APR's more locked behind voting only? (no more big nx cards, less aprs for event, etc etc).

    I understand that HP challenges is being introduced, but it does not apply to those who are willing to invest into the game who want to progress to late game.

    While i believe that reaching high hp goals should take a while, I dont believe it should be so heavily time gated, and should be instead able to work towards through means of grinding, pqing, and event grinding by participating in APR exchanges INSTEAD of raffling. The more you take away resources to work towards our goal, and instead lock it through voting does not sound very appealing.

    • We lock ourselves from being able to experience gear progression, and instead play mage story until 2 years to immediately skip to timeless, pre-scrolled, nt, etc etc gear.

    Is this playstyle the direction ML purposefully wants us to take?
     
    • Like Like x 1
  2. brunandes
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    brunandes Windraider

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    12:36 PM
    Tbh unless you are extremely sweaty and level super fast, the rate of APR collection isn't that bad.

    Also note that you can wash out your int and start playing normally way earlier than when fully hitting your hp goal. Bosses pre horntail don't require washing anyway.
     
    • Agree Agree x 3
    • Like Like x 1
    • Disagree Disagree x 1
  3. OP
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    badoomshi
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    badoomshi Red Snail

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    So you're stance is that APR isnt as badly time gated as i stated above. Correct?

    While i respect your stance, I politely argue that lately a ton of nerfs to obtaining nx has been occurring.

    • For example, with the current patch of getting rid of the higher tier nx drops,
    • as well as a surprising low amount of apr's given this summer event (which i argue summer is one of the bigger events).
    • a lower frequency of nx 2x vote events, and many more,
    I cant help but question if this is the direction we want to be going towards.

    I do understand that most players can start playing normally way earlier than hitting your hp goal. however the damage is very minimal and i argue that if not for the kindness of friends and guilds, you Definity wont be accepted in boss runs higher than zak.

    Either way, my interest is really just looking for clarification (due to recent changes involving decreasing the ways we can earn nx/apr) on if

    decreasing
    the amount of apr/nx we can actually grind for, [thus leaning more towards a time gated apr obtaining approach] is the path we want to head towards.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  4. Ainz
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    Ainz Zakum

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    So many I keep forgetting
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    What I believe Brunandes meant is that we can essentially see hp washing in 3 phases.
    1. Getting the excess mp (having high int + mp washes. At this point the character isn't 'playable' by most standards)
    2. Moving mp->hp (usually the largest part of the nx cost)
    3. Washing out base int (not very expensive, usually <1.5m nx.

    While I noted washing out base int as the third step, it can usually be completed as the second step. Leaving a character effectively playable while waiting for the rest of the nx to move mp->hp.

    So the nx goal for a 20-30k attacker might be 7m nx, but you'll realistically need like half of this for a playable lvl 155 attacker with enough mp to eventually wash out.

    Edit: On top of what I mentioned above, one should also not forget that it takes time to leech a character to ~155. Additionally, you can already do a whole bunch of stuff before reaching the final hp goal (Monster Book farming being an obvious choice)
     
    Last edited: Sep 15, 2023
    • Agree Agree x 1
  5. brunandes
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    brunandes Windraider

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    Once u wash out int u have full damage. Converting spare mp to hp can wait.
     
  6. OP
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    badoomshi
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    badoomshi Red Snail

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    well lets lower the half way point from 3.5 to 2mil flat. even lowering it, it takes about a whole year just for a character to be playable. Now while i agree that getting to level 155 is quite difficult for a casual player, for the more dedicated player who already has a bishop (able to speed up the leveling time) and wants to start making a bossing ranged attacker, a whole year of waiting seems very intimidating (just for a character to be playable).

    anyways, as i said above:

    Either way, my interest is really just looking for clarification (due to recent changes involving decreasing the ways we can earn nx/apr) on if

    decreasing
    the amount of apr/nx we can actually grind for, [thus leaning more towards a time gated apr obtaining approach] is the path we want to head towards.

    so id push this conversation back towards my main focus and ask you if you think this push towards a more time gated approach of obtaining apr/nx is appropriate.
     
  7. OP
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    badoomshi
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    badoomshi Red Snail

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    lets say you had 280 int. even if you wash out all the int, by level 155 you'd still be missing out on the 495 level up ap you get.

    anyways i really dont want this conversation to be about this, but rather if the direction of making obtaining apr's more time gated is the path we want to take
     
  8. brunandes
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    brunandes Windraider

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    Wait I do not understand. Why would the 495 AP not be already in your main stat?

    Regarding the direction, my personal view of what staff is trying to do is encourage people to participate in the HP challenges now that it is available. If you want to heavily wash, you should be planning way ahead, such as already voting on spare accounts to accumulate NX.
     
  9. Snork
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    Snork Capt. Latanica

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    because it creates a long-term progression goal which is actually positive for the server
     
    • Agree Agree x 9
    • Disagree Disagree x 1
  10. Krythan
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    Krythan Wolfspider

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    11:36 PM
    Krythan
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    I think it's important to remember, that washing a character to 30k HP is a relatively new phenomenon in the history of the game. Going back through older forum posts, you start to see how many washing guides are recommending 10k, 12k, 15k, etc for ranged characters. I feel like the rate of NX and the cost of APRs was balanced based on more conservative washing practices. I think (I wasn't there for this, so someone with more knowledge can likely speak more honestly on the topic) that the idea of washing a Night Lord to 30k HP was reserved for the most sweaty and committed players... and it's only recent that the "might as well wash to 30k hp" has become a standard response.

    Thus I'd make the argument that it's not that there aren't enough APRs/month, but rather it's becoming more and more common to set extreme goals that require excessive NX.
     
    Last edited: Sep 15, 2023
    • Agree Agree x 2
  11. duski
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    duski Orange Mushroom

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    Yes
     
  12. TORONTOTOKYO
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    TORONTOTOKYO Windraider

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    12:36 PM
    u can make 4 drks to nx farm. sorry, i mean shads.
     

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