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With the nerf to alchemist and pending Shad Star nerf, Shad star's duration should be increased.

Discussion in 'Suggestions' started by Haku, Jun 21, 2020.

  1. Haku
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    Haku Dark Stone Golem

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    With the current available use slots (52), only roughly ~20-22 of that is available for NL to use on potions with the rest taken up by stars. At it's current state, we can roughly do 2 HT runs before running out of stars and that's if both runs are successful and doesn't go the whole 2 hours with unfortunate deaths and dcs.

    With the nerf to alchemist and party bear, a NL has to bring now has to bring ciders that just takes up more use slots. I'd say ~30 ciders (6 slots) is good enough only if your first run is successful and you can carry on the HT buff to the next run, otherwise you'll be short.

    At ~15k hp, I still burn through 300 sorcs and honsters which is about 6 slots, so I'll assume that number is greater for those that can't tank 2 hits.

    That leaves me with about 6-8 use slots which probably goes towards all cures, pet food, and other att pots maybe. This load is for me and might be different for others who might need more potions.

    BUT
    all of this is not an issue if you can afford to buy myo myo the traveling merchant to recharge your stars for you inside the cave, which only a handful is willing to buy if you aren't finished hp washing or just ask a friend that is willing to help you recharge which is what I do sometimes when something goes wrong.

    Now for my main point. Use slots aren't much of an issue if you're smart about it, but when shadow star is eventually fixed, every NL is going to have to buy ~30 stars of either MTKs or Balanced Furies which is a lot and will cost roughly 750m - 3b + depending how much of each you're willing to buy.

    Buffing the duration of shadow star to the same duration as shadow partner (180 seconds) will lessen the burden of carrying so much stars when the shadow star fix eventually comes along. Even if the fix doesn't come along soon, I still believe that the duration should be buffed with the nerf to party bears and alchemist since it does impact our already limited available use slots.

    This isn't an OP buff at all. It only affects use slots. This balances the huge nerf on Alchemist which came with a "buff" to SE-less damage as a compensation for the nerf, which wasn't at all.
     
    • Agree Agree x 4
    • Disagree Disagree x 1
  2. OP
    OP
    Haku
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    Haku Dark Stone Golem

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    Use slots aren't an issue if you're smart about it. And you don't have to bring coke pills for a silly 10 att pot.
     
  3. Selquin
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    Selquin Headless Horseman

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  4. OP
    OP
    Haku
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    Haku Dark Stone Golem

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    oh? o-o smh it say 10 in the lib
    I must've missed an update.
     
  5. OP
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    Haku
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    Haku Dark Stone Golem

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    Anyways, It's still a fair buff imo. No other class has to use up 60% of their use slots on ammo.
     
  6. RegalStar
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    RegalStar Nightshadow

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    I wonder how much ammo sairs use; I can only imagine it's even worse because there's no "shadow bullet" akashskyakashsky
     
  7. OP
    OP
    Haku
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    Haku Dark Stone Golem

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    oh kekw
     
  8. yogurtseller
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    yogurtseller Mixed Golem

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    I use 7 slots of bullets (4 armor piercing, 3 eternals) for HT runs. The majority of my inventory is taken up by pots because I need to bring in 2k honsters and 2k sorcerers. Last couple slots are for attack pots and baskets.
     
  9. akashsky
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    akashsky Horntail

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    It's pretty bad. I use 20 sets of bullets which is usually enough to get me through 2 HT runs. However, the pot burn is quite high (due to low avoid).

    I actually have 5 characters in horntail cave, most of which simply exist to store potions for my corsair/paladin to use during boss fights. Whenever people are done with their HT runs, I try to buy extra potions, or I try to sell HTPQ service for NLC pots.

    Basically, we don't have enough use slots, so I am forced to use mules to fix my problems.

    upload_2020-6-21_20-40-35.png
     
  10. cakesogood
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    cakesogood Windraider

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    where you get the information that shadow star going get nerfed.
     
  11. Kanashimi
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    Kanashimi Brown Teddy

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    buffing NLs in 2020 smh xD
    NLs are overbuffed already.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  12. OP
    OP
    Haku
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    Haku Dark Stone Golem

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    Fixed that for you.
     
  13. Esmo
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    Esmo Pac Pinky

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    Soul arrow is op

    Edit : I wanna know the reason of nerfing the alchemist skill,the nl class was perfectly fine.
     
  14. Kanashimi
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    Kanashimi Brown Teddy

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    bms and mms dont have shifter, what are you complaining about?
    lets just add shifter to all classes while we are at it, to balance u know...lol
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  15. Esmo
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    Esmo Pac Pinky

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    let’s replace haste with se :) good buff
     
  16. boost3rr
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    boost3rr Slime

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  17. Nise
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    Nise Supervisor Staff Member Supervisor Game Moderator

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    **Weapon Attack Potions: The Beginning**
    We were trying to (across the board) tune down weapon attack potions used in boss runs. With party bears being pretty much free for every run, there was an inadvertent power creep that came into the game. That lead to easier and faster runs with little to no sacrifice. A free (no mesos used, and also with voting on multiple accounts now allowed) 20 wa buff that lasted 15 minutes was way too strong. We decided to change party bears, which would then cause people to have to go to alternative weapon attack potions/skills.

    **Replacing Bears: Ciders and NLs**
    The replacement for 20 wa party bears would be ciders/guava/rage, which have a much shorter duration. Alchemist provided NLs with a 150% duration to these shorter pots, which definitely adds up compared to all the other classes with 100% duration. This imbalance would've ultimately meant all other classes would be nerfed indirectly and NLS made more OP (relatively). Therefore, to keep all classes in line and be equally affected by the party bear change, a 25% decrease in buff duration seemed reasonable.

    The avoid + shifter built into avoids make NLs use way less potions than all other classes anyway, which makes them use relatively less use slots for potions (potions specifically) anyway. There's also the 150% recovery effect for potions that remained unchanged in alchemist, which helps with potion consumption (and therefore, less use slots being taken up).

    Eg. For a HT run, let's say a BM has to take 1300 pots + 4 stacks of ciders (100 minutes) = 17 use slots taken
    Meanwhile a NL can take around 800 pots + 3 stack of ciders (3*5*5*1.5 = 112.5 minutes) = 11 use slots taken
    With the change it becomes > 800 pots + just a bit over 3 stacks of cider (16 ciders = 100 minutes) = 12 use slots taken

    **Potency of Strong Potions**
    Removing party bears as the go-to buff was only part of our attempt to tune down the use of weapon attack potions used in boss runs. High attack potions like apples can't be removed from the game at this point, but the potency of it could be altered by reducing their duration. If we were to just reduce the durations for all classes, a NL with 150% duration would be even more sought after to better utilize these game-changing potions. There's enough of a demand/reliance on NLs as the main DPS classes for bosses. Making them sought out for this reason as well, would clearly push them over the edge as the indisputably best class.

    We still wanted to preserve the NL class identity which is survivability (avoid+shifter+dark sight) and efficiency maximisation (meso up + alchemist + drain). So we kept it at 125% duration, but 150% would've just undermined or nullified our attempts at achieving the original objective: trying to tune down weapon attack potions.

    This is all in response to explaining the rationale for alchemist changes
     
    • Agree Agree x 4
  18. Esmo
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    Esmo Pac Pinky

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    ok,can you guys buff the shadow star skill?
     

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