Shads have mediocre damage and utility. We need more love.

1H NT hero was about 10.6% stronger than a shadower using perf kanzir according to Akash's calculations using 17 att cape, 21 att gloves, 20 att shield for hero, and 31 att shield for shad, if that helps.

 

Thanks for the quick replies
Guess NT 1h heroes have alot in common in DPM when compared to shads hahah

 

Barrel should shave off 200 ms.

 

As a side remark, if using perf shield for shad for dpm comparisons is the modus operandi, that would make shads (and 1h heroes, I suppose) by far the most expensive class to gear (7-8b more than all other classes), not NLs .

 

Do you know what shad dpm would be for the first group of charts if the perf dkhan were replaced with a 31, out of curiosity?

 

If done right, you can act quickly out of the barrel, so you should be able to replace barrage duration with barrel cast time (moment it "lands" on the feet), but I cant confirm if its simply -200ms from a barrage.

Not sure which attack strings are being used for these calcs, but I assume it was barr+ds and barr+orb while charged. Lately I've been finding success with barrage+drain->orb while charged and either barrage->flash fist->uppercut or barrage->ds to charge (depending on situation, seems to be same damage for me with different charging speeds and shifting iframe timings to actively dodge a bit better). I only punched dummies to see what works but I'd be interested in seeing if numbers line up.

 

I've also been doing barrage+orb+drain. There is a sliver of unused time between barrage+ds and the next barrage. With barrage+orb+drain, you overfill this delay a bit but the extra dmg of drain I think makes up for it. I've tested them a bit at dummies with SE+echo and found orb+drain to be like 5%-10% stronger than ds. Not sure how repeatable this is cuz of the huge RNG nature of barrage w/ SE.

 

I'm attaching an old dpm45 screenshot of mine with my old gear: 14wa cape, 17wa gloves, 35wa shield, and 138wa dagger. Buffs used were only cider + mw20 + echo. The total cost to make this gear is under 10b (and the valuation is roughly around there too at the time, 17wa gloves cost considerably more now but back then I was only getting 800m offers for it KEKW). I feel like 11.6m dpm45 for a cleave in HT is very respectable and is in a very good spot in terms of bossing balance, and it is possible for many dedicated shadower mains to get this type of gear if they farm, boss, and save prudently for several months.

I've since upgraded my cape and gloves to 16wa and 23wa respectively but have failed to crest 13m dpm45 even on Onyx Apple because usually if I'm cleaving 4 parts, the wings will die early if bishop is alive, or if I'm hitting an arm too much, it will cause mass sed too early and grief my pepega unwashed HT bishop (jk).

Will follow up with a single target dummy dpm test shortly with my current gear for comparison .

 

Nise's spreadsheet says barrage+du.

Notes on spreadsheet:
-buccs spend 66.7% of the time in Super Transform not 40%
-buccs use different skills outside of Super Transform depending on if charge is up or not
-using barrage+DS (barrel cancel; single target), charge is up ~60% of the time outside of Super Transform

 

I've found some errors in the numbers that are misconstruing the shad damage. I only really looked at the shad calcs, but I believe some of these are pervasive in each class's calcs:

• Echo is applied with att buff (cider) included, when it should be excluded
• Secondary stat from scrolling a perf weapon is not included (e.g., 21 luk from 7x30% dagger)
• The stats don't meet the pescas requirement of 160 dex
  
• The shad gear is a little weird. You wouldn't catch a shad wearing a 10 atk MoN or a katinas. I tried to replicate this with my calculator, keeping the katinas but replacing the 10 atk MoN with a 23/23/23 HTP, adjusting the base STR and DEX to match the gain from the HTP. This leads to a single target dpm of 8,251,000.

If you fix the katinas issue, putting in a 2/22 top and 20/4 bottom and also increasing DEX a bit to make the 160 req, the single DPM goes to 8,315,500 (in comparison, your sheet has 8,410,000). I've tested my calculator multiple times across different levels so I'm fairly confident in its results.

Adding in echo and the primary stat from the weapon would improve this, but would also improve other classes, though I'm not sure by how much. I'm guessing that the end result will have shads relatively lower on the graphs than their current depiction. But, I don't think pure calculated dpm is a good metric given shads' high avoid; and on the flip side, our HT dpm is a lot worse since we spend way more time being sedded now.

Personally I have no opinion on buffing shads, except for making pickpocket and SE work on assassinate.

 

Y'all need to put the math away, I got a surefire proof that shad > warrior.

No warriors have whited pink bean.

Blu301 whited pink bean.

QED

 

And it's so easy to forget too. Sometimes my expectations are through the roof and its easy to forget the amount of love that goes into the server.

Also shads have been buffed several times already. We're (conservatively) on Shad 5.0. Havent played it but most seem to like it. I wonder what op would think of actual unbuffed shads from 2015.

 

we maybe consume 200 pots every 3 months depending on bossing/grinding sessions?

sorry sorry too much info don't nerf us

 

This is quite honestly a lie. The only potions I've ever consumed as a shadower during bosing are mana bulls I get from begging the bishop to give me.

 

> best bossing damage
I don't think anyone is asking for shads to have the best bossing damage, or even the best of the cleavers. Heck, I don't even expect shads to necessarily do more single target damage than any other attacker class, only that the gap should be smaller or that they should have more utility.

> effectively double HP
Having effectively double HP is a rather moot point when compared to other cleavers (because why would one compare cleave hp/damage to that of range) considering there are virtually no shads with over 15k hp and the overwhelming majority have less than 10k while warriors can effortlessly wash to 30k.

> being the only class with both cleave and single target