1. Hello!

    First of all, welcome to MapleLegends! You are currently viewing the forums as a guest, so you can only view the first post of every topic. We highly recommend registering so you can be part of our community.

    By registering to our forums you can introduce yourself and make your first friends, talk in the shoutbox, contribute, and much more!

    This process only takes a few minutes and you can always decide to lurk even after!

    - MapleLegends Administration-
  2. Experiencing disconnecting after inserting your login info? Make sure you are on the latest MapleLegends version. The current latest version is found by clicking here.
    Dismiss Notice

Buff HP Challenge for Bishops

Discussion in 'Suggestions' started by Diamondback, Jul 16, 2024.

  1. Diamondback
    Online

    Diamondback Master Chronos

    99
    14
    101
    Jul 16, 2024
    10:32 AM
    It feels like a scamm, to see the expected HP gain as a Bishop.
    [​IMG]
     
    • Disagree Disagree x 13
    • Agree Agree x 2
    • Creative Creative x 1
  2. Nightz
    Offline

    Nightz Supervisor Staff Member Supervisor Game Moderator

    2,080
    1,195
    520
    Oct 22, 2020
    Male
    10:32 AM
    Nightz
    I/L Arch Mage
    200
    Funk & Pasta
    Moderator Post
    [​IMG]
     
    • Like Like x 3
  3. Shadowaa
    Offline

    Shadowaa Horny Mushroom

    49
    10
    51
    Feb 23, 2024
    Male
    4:32 PM
    Shadowaa
    Bowmaster
    150
    Is this not a HP washed Bish?
     
  4. OP
    OP
    Diamondback
    Online

    Diamondback Master Chronos

    99
    14
    101
    Jul 16, 2024
    10:32 AM
    As faar as i understood it - the HP Gain from the Ring is even with Washing there to reach a certain amount of HP, correct?
    Also the Ring is supposed to make all content aviable without the need of Washing. (besides the fact Legends advertising itself with "HP Washing Optional" for years)
    Wich Bishop out there does HT comfortable with that amount of HP?
    You really should considered to increase the HP amount for Mages.
    Seeing some1 Smega his ring with over 10k+ hp Gained, just feels horrible seeing this.
     
    • Agree Agree x 2
  5. Krythan
    Offline

    Krythan Zakum

    1,404
    366
    460
    Sep 2, 2022
    4:32 AM
    Krythan
    Bishop
    185
    Reset
    The HP Challenges are presented as an alternative to Washing.

    They are designed in a way that once enrolled, they lock you out of washing in the future, and replace your HP/MP with a set amount (if that amount is above your current HP/MP)

    Remember, the amount that Rosa shows is your Base HP/MP. Add on Monster Book Tier 10, Scrolled Face/Pet Equip, etc, and you're looking at 4.5-5k HP on a mage at 200. Read more

    Account for Magic Guard, and Hyper Body, and that should be enough for basically all content.

    "HP Washing is Optional" in the same way that "Running 6-man HT w/o HB" is optional.
     
    Last edited: Jul 17, 2024
  6. Shadowaa
    Offline

    Shadowaa Horny Mushroom

    49
    10
    51
    Feb 23, 2024
    Male
    4:32 PM
    Shadowaa
    Bowmaster
    150
    Yes, and that amount of HP is as what Nightz posted, or the original release thread here.

    Viable ≠ Comfortable
     
    • Agree Agree x 4
  7. QQWWEERRTTYY
    Online

    QQWWEERRTTYY Brown Teddy

    68
    15
    70
    Mar 24, 2024
    5:32 PM
    qwerty31
    Bishop, Bowmaster
    200
    Opposites
    you can still make a nice performance by tracking timer and staying alert, so i disagree with you
     
  8. OP
    OP
    Diamondback
    Online

    Diamondback Master Chronos

    99
    14
    101
    Jul 16, 2024
    10:32 AM
    KrythanKrythan youre right, theyre presented as a Alternative. While i simply feel betrayed by the fact, the alternative sets so low.
    Looking at 4.5-5k HP is not enough to compete with a Washed Bish.

    ShadowaaShadowaa
    Youre right, Viable != Comfortable. Now try to host a 6 man HT unwashed.
    Doesn't sound comfortable nor viable either, even with the HP Challenge. Thats my whole point.
    You can make it but if youre unlucky - and thats the whole point Luck - you will wipe.
    Is it now a real alternative? I doubt it.

    QQWWEERRTTYYQQWWEERRTTYY I did 125 HT runs jet, dont worry it is possible just not steady at all.
    Now tell me, how often did you died? It happens to the best, you just need to be unlucky timing wise, you cant prevent it.

    +7k HP would be the the amount i would settle with and hoped for.
    Atleast i hoped for 500 HP Flat. No matter if you used to Wash till that point or not.
    Even thought it is implemented as alternative, it is not a real one.
     
  9. TennGohan
    Offline

    TennGohan Timer

    102
    30
    120
    Apr 2, 2020
    Male
    4:32 AM
    Running 6 man ht with 5.5k on bish (with hp gear) is doable but very stressful.
     
  10. Palladino
    Offline

    Palladino Dark Stone Golem

    140
    77
    161
    Apr 26, 2020
    10:32 AM
    Paladin
    Funk
    Legendary bishop Pengubingu started his 6 man career with 2.8k hp (with equips). glhf m9
     
  11. OP
    OP
    Diamondback
    Online

    Diamondback Master Chronos

    99
    14
    101
    Jul 16, 2024
    10:32 AM
    PalladinoPalladino Let me know how often he Wiped. I bet, atleast 1/10 Runs. I also started to run from lv 120 on with HP Gear, that still doesnt help the fact that you NEED more hp for consistency.

    "“Perfect Frame”

    There’s a term that circulates with horntail runners called a “perfect frame.” It suggests that the left head’s attack hit the bishop a single frame after the bishop gets dispelled (no time to magic guard). It’s pretty rare, but in reality, there’s a cast time for magic guard as well. If you hold down magic guard, and watch your MP bar, you can see how often magic guard is cast. During a run, if you are holding down magic guard after a dispel, it doesn’t necessarily have to be a single frame after you get dispelled for Left Head to kill you; it could just be that Left Head killed you in the interval between your magic guard spam casts. So does this mean that spamming magic guard is not the best solution? Depends on the player perhaps. Alternatives are discussed below.

    Recently, I’ve been seeing a lot of groups focusing Left Head to protect their bishops. While I wouldn’t say this is necessarily a bad tactic, cleave classes suffer a little bit when forced to the top right platform since a failure in stance causes them to have to climb all the way back up again. For this reason, I will only endorse this tactic on runs where protecting the bishops is an absolute priority. If all bishops on the run have less than 5800 HP, it’s probably best to focus Lead Head. If the host chooses not to focus Left Head, how else can we mitigate some of the danger? The first step is to keep track of all the ways we can get dispelled."
    SRC: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1fe3bHTZ0YjFziv4PspqC7yx9C2ILiE3Ki0EBqIoxMDQ/edit

    You can play as good as you want, within a HT Run wich is not done within a few Minutes, the odds stack up to get Executed as low base HP Bishop.
    Thats simply a fact. Else no Bishop would HP Wash. No Bishop would aim for more HP then neccessary with Washing.
    Every Unwashed Sweaty Bishop atleast once tanked Bodyhits from Blacks, spammed MG and got right away executed Frame Perfect.
    If itd be a skill issue and not pure RNG wich makes it neccessary i wont complain.
    If i recognize it right, its been 2 years since i ran the last time HT. Accepting on Lv 180 3,4k base hp as alternative to washing still doesnt sound right.

    Edit: Imagine being level 200 on lets say 5.5k HP unable to CONSISTENT do HT.
    Does this sound like a alternative to HP Washing? Doubts.
     
    Last edited: Jul 17, 2024
    • Agree Agree x 1
    • Disagree Disagree x 1
  12. DrChuchu
    Offline

    DrChuchu Balance Team Staff Member Balance Team

    341
    171
    278
    Sep 21, 2020
    Male
    4:32 AM
    DrPikachu
    Night Lord
    200
    With 2.8k base, you can easily hit 4.5k with Ellin ring, T10, MoN, and BFC, which is more HP than when I started HT at 140s as bishop. It was plenty comfortable and you can buy a mount if you're that concerned with getting perfect framed (mount during dp animation and then hold MG)
     
    • Agree Agree x 2
    • Informative Informative x 2
  13. QQWWEERRTTYY
    Online

    QQWWEERRTTYY Brown Teddy

    68
    15
    70
    Mar 24, 2024
    5:32 PM
    qwerty31
    Bishop, Bowmaster
    200
    Opposites
    I died more often when i had more than 6k hp indeed, and i died 8% of total run(4-12 man). I havent suffered from perfect frame. the leading cause of my death was either server lag or being careless.
    Also, i heard there are some OG bishops having lower than 7k hp but still actively joins 6man ht.
    As you said you ran ht more than 100 times, i think you already know experience is more important than hp.
     
  14. Alyosha
    Offline

    Alyosha Skelegon Retired Staff

    1,017
    1,148
    433
    Mar 9, 2017
    1:32 AM
    TheDao
    Paladin
    200
    Pasta
    OP is right, which is why instead of doing HP challenges on bishop#1 I have instead chosen to remake into bishop#4 as his replacement. Saying 'huehue get good' is incredibly disingenuous and not practical in any way shape or form. Bishop #1 should not be ran in any 6man HT with his HP challenges level of HP(he can gain a few dozen if I wanted to actually do it) and the only functional use I have for him is to use him as a secondary bishop. He is simply too risky to run in any standard squad and I can only use him because of the sheer amount of overkill in the setup. Put him solo in the hands of any new player and it will end in disaster for most runs.

    When challenges include these notes:
    upload_2024-7-16_23-13-50.png
    you can reasonably expect that bishops would be given enough HP to run these pieces of content under these circumstances, but that is not the case and require heavy asterisks to even begin justifying bringing them along. The final number would need to be brought up to 3800 or so before I rethink the cold calculus that has convinced me remaking is easier.

    As probably the only individual on the server who regularly runs a sub 5k hp bishop in a hyper-optimized squad, he is a hindrance that will be struck out as it's simply not viable and the active improvements to be made are by replacing him instead of committing to the challenges. He simply can't perform to a standard that I find acceptable and I have failed to find enough leeway to justify the continued usage of a challenged bishop. It's simple fantasy to declare it to be fine as is, and if you do want to use one be prepared to also bring a hyper washed bishop for an additional res, or else be stuck in 12mans for the rest of your days.
     
    • Agree Agree x 6
  15. emptystack
    Offline

    emptystack Red Snail

    6
    1
    11
    Jun 17, 2024
    4:32 PM
    How to cast MG when riding? It says I can’t cast it.
     
  16. Palladino
    Offline

    Palladino Dark Stone Golem

    140
    77
    161
    Apr 26, 2020
    10:32 AM
    Paladin
    Funk
    git gud m8
     
  17. Alyosha
    Offline

    Alyosha Skelegon Retired Staff

    1,017
    1,148
    433
    Mar 9, 2017
    1:32 AM
    TheDao
    Paladin
    200
    Pasta
    I am gitting gud, that's why I'm remaking and running away from HP challenges levels of HP like everyone in this thread is.

    You run a few times with suboptimal HP, then you get more HP, then you tell the HP Challenged losers that they're fine because you did a few runs and that means they can live permanently with the HP you managed to escape from :cow::cow::cow:
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
    • Creative Creative x 1
  18. OP
    OP
    Diamondback
    Online

    Diamondback Master Chronos

    99
    14
    101
    Jul 16, 2024
    10:32 AM
    Edit:
    :) I did 125 HT runs from lv 120 on, wbu? Ever ran as Bish or ure just one of the 30k hp NLs sweating for the meso, multi clienting not caring about anything? :D
    ----

    DrChuchuDrChuchu
    https://forum.maplelegends.com/index.php?threads/do-mages-need-hog-mount.53410/
    Well... as you mention it aint waterproof either. :/
    I am also currently with Tier 6 on 4.8k hp also, soon on 5.7k-5.8k, with a lot of HP Gear.
    Better save then sorry. :p
     
    Last edited: Jul 17, 2024
  19. Palladino
    Offline

    Palladino Dark Stone Golem

    140
    77
    161
    Apr 26, 2020
    10:32 AM
    Paladin
    Funk
    Good for you!

    While the sentiment that a 5k hp bishop is unviable due to a 1/50* chance of being perfect framed may be true from your perspective, I certainly don’t share that view. The challenges weren’t made for you and your kin; they’re for the casuals who don’t want to bother with washing.

    *I pulled this number out my arse, but it certainly doesn’t happen very often.
     
    Last edited: Jul 17, 2024
    • Like Like x 1
    • Agree Agree x 1

Share This Page