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DPM Compilation

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Gurk, Mar 13, 2022.

  1. TennGohan
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    TennGohan Horny Mushroom

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    About 450 hons. I need to repot after every hit during the 1st and 3rd body and I didn't want to die so some over potting. I'm terrible with potting so I'm sure a shad with more hp can get away with half the hp pots. Probably another 2m in mg costs, didn't use pp, that would be guaranteed death.
     
  2. OP
    OP
    Gurk
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    Gurk Windraider

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    Gxrk
    Marksman, Shadower, Buccaneer
    Statue DPM 35 (Echo, MW30, SE, SI, Apple):
    statue35.PNG

    DPM test was about 1.5 minutes too long and extended into body.
    We went with a bird last approach for both stages 4 and 5. Got sed a few times but no banishes.
    Pretty much never got to hit Ariel during left bird DR because climbing up was so aids.
    About a 20% drop from pre-patch.

    Body DPM 20 (Echo, MW30, SE, SI, Apple):
    body20.PNG

    First time reaching body since patch. Not a very good showing.
    Got sed more often than I should have, especially in the first third. Had to leave the shelter of the center platform sometimes when bean moved too far right (should have just waited in hindsight).
    The right edge of the center platform also kept baiting me into thinking I would be safe ducking there.
    Had gotten much better at avoiding the seds by the latter half. Hopefully will get sed much less next time, especially with us presumably getting shields next run during DRs as we didn't get any this run.
    Also about a 20% drop from pre-patch.

    Range on Cider:
    range.png

    Toad Body 1 DPM 10 (Echo, MW20, SE, SI, Cider):
    toad1_dpm10.PNG

    Toad Body 2 DPM 10 (Echo, MW20, SE, SI, Cider):
    toad2_dpm10.PNG
     
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  3. Ainz
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    Ainz Skelosaurus

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    9:29 AM
    So many I keep forgetting
    0
    [​IMG]
    Dummy DPM 1 (mw20, coke pill)
    (On the single dummy, in case anyone thinks "wow his dk must really suck")
    I guess including HP margins is now also relevant for DK dpms? I was at around 8k HP, which puts me at 27%.

    This was honestly just to dust off my DK and see what the dmg is like. Seems like an enjoyable class and the regular 20k lines feel really good.
     
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  4. OP
    OP
    Gurk
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    Gurk Windraider

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    Gxrk
    Marksman, Shadower, Buccaneer
    First time properly PBing on shad since patch (and in a long time in general).

    Statue DPM 30 (Echo, MW30, Apple):
    statue_dpm30.PNG
    • Was muling SE so I had to walk my archer back and forth whenever we would start attacking right man to catch the DPs, as well as when my archer was banished on two occasions, which incurred a not insignificant amount of downtime on my shad
    • We used a right bird last strat
    • Did not have an in-house bishop to dispel my debuffs when charging nates
    • Did not get banished on shad
    • Was sed only about 4-5 times (was relatively late in entry order and also caught a few stray shields from a bish mule)
    • Attacking Ariel with nate seems like a largely moot endeavor now with auto aggro statues as it already takes a decent amount of time to find the right few pixels where nate can reach without you just walking right off and actually confirming that you are hitting (either by using PP and seeing if mesos are dropping or straining your eyes to look for the nate hit marker on Ariel, assuming no other shads), and with you getting kb'd back relatively often now by the bombardment of attacks you end up wasting a significant amount of time repositioning, which was a very frustrating experience that eventually led me to just resign myself to bstep spam instead
    • Saved a few people by smoking right bird during seds so that was neat
    • With single client and an active bishop to dispel debuffs, I think that 9m would have been achievable

    Body DPM 20 #1 (Echo, MW30, Apple):
    body_dpm20_1.PNG
    • Came into the run expecting to simply camp the bean and rarely ever get sed, but ended up getting a harsh dose of reality
    • Got sed a lot initially while trying to adjust to a bean that moves much more than I was ever used to on shad (buccs on previous runs on shad never engaged in barrel dancing); was significantly more effort than I had anticipated to stay on top of the bean for sed immunity
    • No dispels for the occasions when I got debuffed while charging nate during DR
    • Often got sed while trying to make sure everyone got SE during DRs, which lowered uptime a bit and also led to a higher chance of charged nate getting scuffed
    • Unsure how much smoke affected overall party dpm, but people seemed to think it was rather impactful
    Body DPM 20 #2 (Echo, MW30, Apple):
    body_dpm20_2.PNG
    • Swapped over to the right side as I found that it generally left me in a much less vulnerable state than the left side "splash zone" in between the the bean and the mid plat where I usually had no cover if bean managed to escape from me
    • Used the nate dash more often than I expected to, especially with bean being allowed to just roam around at times, so having SE could have added to dpm in a meaningful way
    • All in all, I think high 3s is definitely possible with some TLC in the form of dispels and a more melee-friendly moving bean
    Range (Echo, MW30, Cider):
    range.png

    Time to retire shad again.
    FoxBye
     
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  5. day4day
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    day4day Brown Teddy

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    u felt like the new shad changes improve ur shad dpm and gameplay? also, why retire ur shad, if i may ask?
     
  6. TTKirnk
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    TTKirnk Balance Team Staff Member Balance Team

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    TTKirnk
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    hello i am back at it again, your boy dear diary man TTKirnk. i have gotten dpms for the new patch pink bean...lets get down to business

    pink bean statues dpm30 (echo, si, mw30, apple, smoke, some holy shields)
    pb statues dpm30 no se.png

    pink bean main body dpm20 (echo, si mw30, apple, smoke, some holy shields)
    pb body dpm20 no se.png

    idk why both include my range when its the same so DONT mention it! there are a few new things to comment on compared to my other pb dpms
    - in terms of my own execution statues are largely the same for me other than i sit at the top platforms to hit right (for stages 1-5) and left man (for stages 1-3, to avoid being sed'd into him), as to avoid their 1/1 staff smash attacks. i also hit left bird during stage 3 i stand on the middle platform so i can jump attack to avoid any left man staff smashes, but everything else is about the same.

    - statue dpm can vary a lot for right bird last strategies, as when you get sed'd/banished or if you end up dying can greatly influence your dpm, and theres not a lot you can do about it. i ended up being sed'd like 4-5 times during my dpm test, to which i will'd 2 of them and got lucky heals from the bishop mule for like 2 seds, because otherwise i would have been dead. a lucky smoke also saved me once as well. i had 0 banishes for the whole run interesting enough, as well as 0 deaths for statues. this statue dpm id say is a good one without any mishaps.

    - main body isnt much different execution wise either, other than having to dodge seduces, which can surprisingly lower your dpm more than you would expect. i didnt play that well, but it was better than last time i ran pb post patch on my pally. i only got sed'd like 3ish or so times, and didnt die once during body either. getting sed'd can greatly lower dpm, and how efficient you are with dodging sed's can also influence dpm as well. on top of all that, i had to dance around the bean since the buccs were barrel dancing with it, but smoke did help a bit since it didnt require me to move around so much. on top of that, i eventually became party leader sometime during the dpm test, and i had to add people a few times (though i tried to do this during drs). all and all, not a bad performance for everything going for me but i can definitely go for improvements. decent dpms overall id say, with me being motivated to get 3mil for main body with how close i am and not having se for this test, although if i swap se for smoke it may be harder than i expect...
     
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  7. OP
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    Gurk
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    Gurk Windraider

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    And now for my first time properly PBing on bucc since the patch.

    Statue DPM 30 (Echo, MW20, SE, SI, Apple):
    statue_dpm30.PNG
    • We used the right bird first approach
    • Was one of the last few to enter
    • Never got sed except for the one I will'd out of
    • Got banished once
    • We attacked right bird from the left side so I had to spam DS/orb for some period of time during stages 4/5 when ST was down and I didn't have shield
    Body DPM 20 (Echo, MW20, SE, SI, Apple):
    body_dpm20.PNG
    • Playing bucc with new sed changes felt somewhat similar to my experience on shad in that it was highly desirable, if not almost mandatory, for me to try to stay on top of bean as much as possible
    • Had to play a bit more cautiously with demo timings
    • We had 4 buccs so it got a bit confusing at times when 3+ were in ST and I would mix myself up with someone else and get bonk'd by sed
    • Died once early on to a sed while I was still trying to adjust
    • Got sed a total of 6-7 times, two of which I would have died to if not for my bish healing me
    • Bucc gameplay feels much more engaging as well as difficult now that I can no longer just hold down demo
    • DPM dropped about 20% compared to pre-patch but I definitely have room to improve; hopefully can achieve closer to mid-3 next time
    Bonus Body DPM 15 (Echo, MW20, SE, SI, Cider):
    body_dpm15_cider.PNG

    • Did a second body dpm test on cider out of curiosity
    • Was more used to body by now and only got sed 2 or 3 times
    Range (Echo, MW20, Cider):
    range.PNG
     
  8. OP
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    Gurk
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    Gurk Windraider

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    Shad changes definitely improved dpm, though I only ended up getting about 100k more than my highest pre-patch because of a much more frequently moving bean and also partly because I got sed a few times. Gameplay-wise, the shad changes didn't really have any impact.

    My shad was already a retired sed mule; I'm having much more fun with my bucc. I only brought it out to see how it would fare at auf and new PB. If I were to really play shad again, I'd want to remake it with much more HP as it feels quite constrained at auf with its current HP.
     
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  9. akashsky
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    akashsky Zakum

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    Should have made a buccaneer or shadower.
     
  10. beegoratto
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    beegoratto Chronos

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    it actually feels so horrible i fucking hate this boss rn
     
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  11. FCOArlo
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    FCOArlo Chronos

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    was at toad for mr gork's 200 so i did a dpm3. I know it doesn't count for thread but the bodies weren't gonna last 10 min so YOLO

    SE SI Echo Mw20 cider DPM3. Got like 8.4-8.5 on a dpm1 later so definitely not optimal but first time toading on DK in probably 12-14 months.
    upload_2022-9-29_1-21-51.png
     
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  12. OP
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    Gurk
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    Gurk Windraider

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    Melee confirmed just as good as range at toad? Is this how we win, by increasing def?
     
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  13. OP
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    Gurk
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    Gurk Windraider

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    Statue DPM 30 (Echo, MW30, SE, SI, Apple):
    statue30.PNG

    Was sed twice and banished only once, although my shad that I was muling in another party got banished twice so I was effectively banished three times.

    Don't have a body dpm unfortunately. Was dead for several minutes near the beginning after getting sed while trying to mule smoke and the subsequent dpm test was still several minutes out when bean died. Hopefully can snag one another time.

    Range on Cider:
    range.png
     
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  14. OP
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    Gurk
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    Gurk Windraider

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    Gxrk
    Marksman, Shadower, Buccaneer
    Statue DPM 30 (Echo, MW20, SE, SI, Apple):
    statue30.PNG
    • had mw30 for the first 10ish minutes
    • squad made use of right-bird-first strat
    • no banishes
    • willed out of the only sed
    Body DPM 20 (Echo, MW20, SE, SI, Apple):
    body20.PNG
    • was sed 3-4 times; still working on getting sed less often
    • died during last minute of dpm test
    Range on Cider:
    range.PNG
     
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  15. OP
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    Gurk
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    Gurk Windraider

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    I was curious about how pog shads must be now at toad given their IED shenanigans so I decided to give it a whirl. And what I discovered was an immense disappointment.

    Toad Body 1 DPM 10 (Echo, MW20, SE, Cider):

    toad_b1_dpm10.PNG

    wtf is dis shit. The boss with by far the highest defense (apart from last body of BGA) and this is what it amounts to?
    OnionSilent

    I charged nates whenever the IED buff was offline, which is supposed to be the optimal approach based on my previous calculations. Nonetheless, I did a purely nate spam dpm test as well for control purposes.

    b1_nate_spam.PNG

    So the IED change did indeed increase shad dpm at toad by about 10% as I had previously predicted. I guess I just never had a shad dpm to reference pre-patch and didn't realize it was so low before? It nonetheless seems oddly low given that Arlo's DK got 7.78m. Granted, I was using a 128 kanzir instead of a perf kanzir this time around, but I don't imagine a perf would have increased my dpm by more than 500k, which would have put it at low 7s at best, which still seems on the mediocre side given that the whole IED getup seemed to point to shads being among the best melee, if not also on par with range, at the bosses with the most defense. Otherwise, what is the whole point of adding IED instead of simply boosting nate damage (a more dull route, to be sure)?

    If anyone was tempted to bring shads to toad as a result of their changes thinking that they'd be passable if not highly competent there, let it be known that all three flavors of warriors still output more dpm here.

    Toad Body 2 DPM 10 (Echo, MW20, SE, Cider):
    toad_b2_dpm10.PNG

    I more or less expected a sizeable drop during body 2 (which I see on bucc as well) given that body 2 features iframes/shifting hitboxes during some of its attacks. The drop was probably a bit more prominent than it had to be though as I tried to nate dance on the body and found that that was probably not the optimal route to go with (a few too many whiffed nates). I also tried mostly attacking from right side but got even lower. I imagine the optimal approach would be to simply mimic what I already do on my bucc, which is to just nate in place from left side and dash forward whenever it does its wave attack and then dash back. Unfortunately my shad died due to lag before I could finish that test.
     
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  16. ijw0908
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    ijw0908 Slime

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    So informative that i can finally quit shad. Thx gurk.
     
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  17. Runar
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    Runar King Slime

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    The goal:
    Find out which elemental charge deals the most damage in CWKPQ cleave after archer boss dies.

    Hypothesis:
    Ice charge is the superior elemental charge when 2-target-cleaving warrior and thief boss, since the thief boss is weak to ice.

    Conclusion:
    Fire charge is simply better.

    CWKPQ 2-target-cleave DPM 3 (MW20, SI, Cider)
    Ice charge:
    [​IMG]

    Fire charge:
    [​IMG]

    Range for reference:
    [​IMG]

    Note #1: It wasn't possible to get longer DPM tests due to the fairly short amount of uptime warrior + thief had after archer was slaughtered.
    Note #2: There might be some odd cases where blast is more efficient than ACB after archer dies, i.e. if you're cleaving with a partner who's single target oriented as well. Will have to do further research to establish a final conclusion though.
     

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  18. TTKirnk
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    TTKirnk Balance Team Staff Member Balance Team

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    i actually end up blasting sometimes depending on my partner and which boss spawned first once archer is down. For example, if you're with a hero or dark knight, thief boss is very likely to have more hp than warrior boss. in these cases, if thief boss spawned before warrior boss aka blast is able to land on thief boss, i actually usually swap to ice charge and blast the thief boss so his hp ends up being more even with warrior boss to keep up the hero's/dark knight's cleave efficiency. i usually choose to continue to acb if i am with a shad/bucc/pally since it is still technically better dpm than just blasting, but i think there is a potential argument to just blast instead, since anyone else (aka ranged side) that comes to help will be doing single target damage. i think if blast is hitting warrior boss, the argument is stronger imo due to how annoying he can be (the stuns, summons, damage up etc), but i dont cwkpq often enough to really test how much of a difference this can make on the timer, if any. this could all just be quality of life decisions as far as i know
     
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  19. Runar
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    Runar King Slime

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    Yep. I’d say the differences are relatively trivial considering how short of a time span you have to 2-target-cleave. Interesting sidenote, nonetheless.
     

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