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Make it fair for those unable to multi account vote (12/2/2019)

Discussion in 'Suggestions' started by cakesogood, Nov 26, 2019.

Is Voting for AP Resets fair for people unable to vote for multiple Accounts?

Poll closed Dec 2, 2019.
  1. Yes if gtop does not allow you but allows me it is fair

    9.5%
  2. No it isn't fair for the people who are unable to vote on multiple accounts

    19.0%
  3. New Suggestion 2 seems to be the most fair for old players

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  4. How do i delete this poll

    47.6%
  5. Do a flip

    9.5%
  6. Gm help me delete pole so i can make a new pole

    4.8%
  7. poll*

    9.5%
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. cakesogood
    Offline

    cakesogood Windraider

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    Oct 2, 2017
    Male
    Japan
    2:01 PM
    Demun, kokushibo
    Hero
    200
    Honor
    *Sup This whole thread has changed into being fair for those who are unable to multi-account vote to hp wash... and I might have confused people who read the old suggestion. If you disagree why it shouldn't be fair for those whole cant multi-vote please state your reason and ill compile it here.*

    New Suggestion 2
    Vote on one IP, get Nx on 3 different accounts(Capped at 3 per IP). 5k on each account. We do this by linking the accounts together on the website. That way we are all able to have equal opportunities in hp washing/owling on multiple accounts. While still keeping the current main way of getting ap resets from the cash shop at a similar rate.

    Ap Resets remains in the cash shop

    Suggestion 2( Final suggestion)
    -
    Capped at 3 accounts linked for 1 IP

    -Place back the rule of voting on different IPs being against server rules.
    Since it is a new implementation it would be 3days ban first offence,7 days ban Second offence, permanent ban 3rd offence (Optional Read Spoiler below)

    -How is this fair? We now all have equal opportunities for owls and ap resets for those unable to multi-vote. Not completely depend on GTOP's mood to say if we have voted or not

    -Why would people not link other's accounts?? because there is a cap of 3 accounts per IP and not an infinite amount of accounts. Furthermore, it requires all login information, emails, birth dates, etc, when linking which equates to account sharing (Bannable by Tos)

    -Unable to link accounts when someone has already linked the account.
    (E.g The Id Legend27 has been linked, another player would not be able to link this account. Thus preventing, people linking friend's accounts

    -
    Require's all information used registering to the server to link accounts.(Applies the same to unlinking accounts as well)

    -How does this solve the problem of being fair-game?
    Bringing back the rule of multi-account voting would deter players from voting on multiple IPs. We now have equal opportunities to wash, have owls, etc.

    -People can still vote abuse?
    I feel that 3 accounts per IP is a fair amount(enough for owls, and washing) and there should be no real reason for people to want to vote-abuse especially when you will get banned for it. (Optional)

    -Not fair to players who went through months for the washing system
    exact same rate of getting ap resets

    -How does this benefit me as an OG I've been so loyal.
    You now only need to vote on a single IP once for 3 accounts. and not do the dreaded aeroplane mode, wifi, device, browser, Gtop tracking bullshiet

    Linking accounts requires all particulars which is similar to account sharing it is already bannable so bans for multi-voting is not needed.(Applies to Voting for friends)
    *Changes to original suggestion from community feedback *
     
    • Disagree Disagree x 6
    • Agree Agree x 5
  2. Buch
    Offline

    Buch Brown Teddy

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    Apr 30, 2015
    Male
    7:01 AM
    Buch
    Cleric
    31
    Too custom, they're free allready, just be patient.

    Think about all the players that actually did go through this process allready.
    Its a major advantage for new players if AP resets actually become dropable from regular mobs.

    I suggest only vote on your Bowman, and with your data plan/work/school internet acces , vote for any other char as additional bonus.

    Consider getting monster book tier 10, it provides 1000 hp.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
    • Disagree Disagree x 1
  3. nolove
    Offline

    nolove Slime

    20
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    Nov 20, 2019
    2:01 PM
    doctor666
    Camper
    666
    yeah well i do agree with thread starter, i mean yes i understand that there is a need to be patient, but why not reward players who are ready to grind for a short period to enjoy the game.

    i mean not everyone intends to spend 2-3 years voting till you accumulate a large amount of nx just to wash a character, not everyone has the time for that, some players can afford 12hours a day for only a good 3-6 months period, so why not give them an alternative?

    i like the idea of droppable AP resets which are untradable and can only be looted by the player who kills it, sure if this NL wants to avenger or BM wants to arrow rain for 12hours a day to farm 10-20 ap resets, why not? at least it gets this hardworking player closer to his goal without exploiting anything
     
  4. Selquin
    Offline

    Selquin Headless Horseman

    732
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    May 28, 2018
    11:01 PM
    Serperior
    Bowmaster, Night Lord, Buccaneer
    200
    Pasta
    Being able to farm out AP resets obviously gives newer players a massive advantage over the older players, who had no choice but to wait for months to wash. That said, there are already many methods available to farm AP resets.
    As a matter of fact, you can already do this right now.
    During most events, there will be some method to farm AP resets (typically involves trading in event etcs). During many events nx cards will also drop, if you grind during these events and pick up all the nx cards it will add up to a substantial amount. For the anniversary and summer events, it was possible to farm upward to ~2 AP resets an hour indefinitely(while also making ~6m/hr + simultaneously). The current event has no nx cards, so the rate are significantly worse, but you can still farm around ~0.8 resets per hour.
    Outside of events you can also do 2 daily cwkpq's to get 2-3k nx (takes about 2 hours and is also pretty good for money), or if you really want to go hardcore you can even farm LPQ indefinitely on a mule for nx cards in bonus stage.

    I think when most say "please give us a way too farm AP resets!", what they really mean is "please give us a way to get AP resets without any effort!". Whether you like it or not, having high HP on this server is an asset no different than obtaining good gear or high level characters. You will either have to be patient or work hard if you want to obtain a well washed character.
     
    • Agree Agree x 6
  5. nolove
    Offline

    nolove Slime

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    Nov 20, 2019
    2:01 PM
    doctor666
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    wait.... grinding for 12hours a day on an attacker with probable high int to you means "without any effort!" ?

    and voting everyday for months constitutes putting in effort? help me understand
     
    • Like Like x 1
    • Agree Agree x 1
  6. theKatia
    Offline

    theKatia Capt. Latanica

    315
    874
    283
    Apr 29, 2017
    Female
    8:01 AM
    Asteracea
    Bowmaster
    130
    Funk
    As a fellow ranged character I can relate to this.
    Seems well thought out, especially with the fact that only the attacking character can get it (may be a problem to code though, with parties). Perhaps as a rare gacha reward, like chaos/white scrolls.

    Personally I don't have this problem, but I've been levelling slowly, as a new player taking time not only to vote but to find INT/HP equips, collect NX cards and monster cards.

    I haven't seen this topic pop up in a while though, so it's worth looking into what players already do, perhaps it's not as bad as it seems right now.
    In the end it's an item that gives some players an advantage over others... and Legends is a slow brew game. Should require both time and effort, not just one or the other. No one should be able to play 24/7 and make a 30k HP Marksman in 3 months.

    And though the struggles of past players shouldn't be a deterrent for change, the changes should be very balanced and well thought out. Perhaps simply instead of being a rare grindable item only in events, it could be a rare(rarer) grindable item "off" events as well? Just a thought.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  7. Selquin
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    Selquin Headless Horseman

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    11:01 PM
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    I was not referencing you in particular. My point was that your proposition of being able to grind 12 hours for 10-20 AP resets has effectively already been implemented. Hardworking players can already accelerate their washing speed by a substantial amount.
     
    • Agree Agree x 4
  8. nolove
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    nolove Slime

    20
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    Nov 20, 2019
    2:01 PM
    doctor666
    Camper
    666
    i think theres a problem with the statement you are trying to claim

    firstly, the threadstarter suggested on making (Untradable)AP resets grindable/farmable, which i strongly stand with because of the fact that not every player is able to play for long months or even years, some can only play in short time but pack alot of hours in it.

    What you saying is that the staffs have acknowledged this problem and come out with the solution of putting nx in lpq or nx in cwkpq to fix this problem that players are facing, is this true? because if these are the changes or solutions, im not sure if they are really effective at all

    or are these just your personal claims? if so then nothing has been implemented to address the problem right?

    no offence to you btw, i just really want to understand if this points have been addressed or not
     
  9. ahotbanana
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    ahotbanana Capt. Latanica Retired Staff

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    6:01 AM
    As someone who has gone through the process of washing a NL and is currently going through the process of washing a BM, I can cetainly say that I fully understand your pain. That isn't to say, however, that I agree this would be a good idea.

    First of all, as Selquin has said, we already have events where you can farm AP resets. One such event is coming up soonish so it might better to hold your judgement for after that event has passed.

    Secondly, as already mentioned by Buch, something we very much try to avoid on this server is power creep. Because we've added lots of new content to the server over the years and adding new content to the game makes power creep somewhat inevitable, we obviously haven't been able to avoid it entirely. Making AP resets more available would lead to far too much power creep in one go. Also, due to the nature of HP washing, it would only benefit new players and risk alienating the veterans. If AP resets were made more available, this would mean people could realistically go for much higher HP goals. But this would only be the case for new players and not for people who have already washed using the old system.

    Also touched on by Buch is the fact that we have lots of ways to gain HP without washing. A tier 10 ring gives 1000 HP. Ellin ring gives 100. There's also MoN and pet equips, giving varying amounts of HP. Deputy Star is another thing that exists. This is the main thing that has been done to combat the HP washing "problem" on this server and is the fairest way to do it so that we don't devalue the work put in by veteran players who have already washed. I could potentially agree that we could put in more items that give HP which are farmable, similar to the monster book ring, which would be functionally very similar to farming AP resets but wouldn't just be a bottomless supply of extra HP, which I feel like farmable AP resets would become.

    With all of these items, HP washing is soooo close to being "truly optional" on this server. To quote Akashsky's guide here: "Currently, for HP washing to actually be 100% optional, we are missing about 2K HP. This is because a level 200 unwashed thief/archer has nearly 7k hp, and toad requires about 9k before hyperbody."
    This is only if you want to fight the absolute hardest hitting bosses in the game, on the squishiest characters in the game, including a boss that isn't actually released yet.

    2k HP isn't really all that arduous to wash for on these characters, either. On a bowman or NL, you will gain 16-20 HP per wash. Assuming you have the worst possible luck and get 16 on every single HP wash, this is 387,500 NX. Provided you maintain your vote streak, you will earn this in 69 days of voting. I would be amazed if you can get to a high enough level that this will matter in 69 days.

    For the sake of completeness: if you are the luckiest man in the world and get 20HP on every wash, it will take 56 days of voting (310,000NX needed) and if you get the average of 18HP per wash, you will need to vote for 63 days (347,200NX).

    There's an awful lot of misinformation around washing and I think that is what sparks a lot of these forum posts. The problem is that the vast majority of people who HP wash are doing so to avoid having to rely on Hyper Body. This does come with a lot of advantages, but isn't something that is strictly necessary. A lot of guides you will see will be assuming you want to never use HB, making bosses like Toad absolutely insane to wash for and lower bosses like horntail (which could be argued is still an end-game boss) still appear crazy.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  10. Selquin
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    Selquin Headless Horseman

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    11:01 PM
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    The topic of HP washing has been debated over since the dawn of the server, and of course the staff are more than aware of the intrinsic problems of the system. I can't speak directly on behalf of the staff, but the introduction of the monster rings, cwkpq hp equipment, vote streaks, and ability to farm AP resets during events all suggest that staff acknowledge the problem and are giving us ways to lessen the burden of low HP and accelerate the rate of washing.

    I'm not exactly sure what you mean by whether or not these are my personal claims. I do not believe I make any statements about the intents of the staff in my initial post, I merely pointed out the existence of several game mechanics that already allow for AP resets to be somewhat farmable.
     
  11. Xeph
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    Xeph Horny Mushroom

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    2:01 PM
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    Have you tried washing one so far? And what is your HP goal, 30k clean?
    I’ve wash an Ice to 25k MP, a Bishop to 18750, a NL and a Bow each to 10k and I took less than 1.5 years total. I did it with being only able to vote on 1 account in the past with the vote abuse ban rule, as well as without streaks.

    Also note that you don’t have to fully wash out your int to be able to play your character. At the higher end (>135), most range players have a small amount of int and they play just fine. These are the NX that you can take as long to vote/farm if you want.

    Please don’t assume. You only need a few months max for 1 character to be PLAYABLE, assuming you vote daily. You are making the problem bigger than it seems.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  12. Dvah
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    Dvah Pac Pinky

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    • Great Work Great Work x 2
  13. postcard
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    postcard Selkie Jr.

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    Have you considered just not washing that much? I'm not trying to be sarcastic, it's a genuine question.

    Because if you think about it, voting for "a few months" to wash a little less isn't that absurd.

    You seem to be aiming for bossing levels (135~155), which will probably take you a few months to get to anyway. Unless you plan to leech the entire way (in which case my question would be if you'd have the motivation/time to grind out AP resets that drop from monsters in the first place) then that time will be spent leveling up your character. By doing about 100+ washes, you'd vote for roughly 3-4 months to get the NX. You'd still have enough HP for the majority of bosses with the help of HB too.

    It's on the lower end of what some people like to wash to, but it's a more feasible goal than say 13k on a BM/NL because you can supplement the HP with Monster Book Ring HP/Blackfist Cloak/the other additional HP gear in the game meant to help alleviate the HP washing woe. If you want to wash to the extent where you have enough int to cripple your character, are you really going to have a good time farming AP resets?

    Everyone's already mentioned that you can farm for AP resets via events, so I'm not gonna go into that.

    But the mentality of wanting to "enjoy the content at a quicker pace without waiting for months" is contrary to what old school MapleStory is in itself. I think it'll be a difficult mindset for you to play this game with, because pre-BB Maple has never been about instant gratification. It's always been about the grind.
     
    • Agree Agree x 3
    • Like Like x 1
  14. aaronis
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    aaronis Slimy

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    I miss nx dropping from mobs during events :'(
     
    • Agree Agree x 4
  15. OP
    OP
    cakesogood
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    cakesogood Windraider

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    2:01 PM
    Demun, kokushibo
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    Selquin
    I think when most say "please give us a way too farm AP resets!", what they really mean is "please give us a way to get AP resets without any effort!".

    Hardworking players can already accelerate their washing speed by a substantial amount.
    Only event-exclusive which may take months to have a decent event

    Postcard
    I think it'll be a difficult mindset for you to play this game with, because pre-BB Maple has never been about instant gratification. It's always been about the grind.

    You guys stating that it's all about the grind and not being lazy getting ap resets when the current only way getting ap resets without events is clicking 2 buttons a day to get one. Instead of grinding ur ass off for it. My question to you is how does clicking a few buttons for Ap resets that is required for certain content a GRIND?


    Isn't the server not supposed to not be vote to win? as from what I'm seeing getting ap resets instead of other stuff from events causes you to lose out on big jackpot items like chaos scrolls and white scrolls and chairs.
     
    • Agree Agree x 3
    • Disagree Disagree x 2
  16. postcard
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    postcard Selkie Jr.

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    That's not true. You can grind PQs like LPQ or GPQ to get NX for AP resets outside of events.

    That being said, the events happen around every major holiday -- Halloween, Christmas, Valentine's, ML Anniversary, Summer event, etc. At most there is a two month downtime between them (usually the interval between Anniversary and Summer) if everything is going fine on the dev end. They always run for a month long and they always offer a way to exchange event items for AP resets. Yes, you lose out on the chance for CS/WS from raffle, but come on. No one is holding a gun to your head and telling you you need to wash.

    Washing to the extent where you'd need months/years is in no way required for major bosses like Horntail/Zakum. With a T10 ring + CWK equips you can do HT with minimal washing, and you can Zakum -- just a little later than usual.

    Anyway, I forgot that I came in here to also agree that while older players shouldn't necessarily set a precedent for the future of the game, allowing AP resets to drop does create an unfair advantage for newer players. Events already allow you to grind out AP resets. Sure, they're limited time only, but they occur on a regular schedule. If you want to go outside of that schedule, then grind the PQs.
     
  17. Zooploop
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    Zooploop Master Chronos

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    If your question is, do people actually grind LPQ on mules to get NX for their main to wash, the answer is yes. Not most, most would prefer to simply play the game and vote for steady NX. However if you really wanted to wash to a high base HP as early as you can, grinding LPQ on a same account mule, running CWKPQ daily, and trading in on events would be the fastest way to reach that goal. Along with grinding monster book rings (as you want something you can grind for, this is up your alley), the quest HP rings and a Blackfist cape from the same CWKPQ you'd want to run for NX.

    Unless what you're saying is these just aren't good enough for you.
     
  18. MrPresident
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    MrPresident Capt. Latanica

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    1:01 AM
    MrPresident
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    Are we trying to kill off the remaining drks?
     
    • Like Like x 1
    • Disagree Disagree x 1
  19. akashsky
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    akashsky Horntail

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    10:01 PM
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    President even if I had 18.75k base HP i would still want your HB to save 60% on potions.
     
    • Like Like x 3
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