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Nerf Shaolin Please!

Discussion in 'Accepted' started by itzjaheezy, Jun 18, 2019.

  1. Dvah
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    Dvah Pac Pinky

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    If you don’t like something it’s doesnt mean the rest will agree with you,most of the people who hit 125 go to shaolin (I my self went there with my drk)

    It will be so unfair to new players if shaolin will be nerfed,because there are so many players that already hit 200 because of shaolin. That why this map probably won’t get nerfed

    Oh wait you hit there 200 and now complain to change it? You’ll slow leveling people who wants to get 200aswell,there is an mid game map and late game map that how it works in mmorpg.

    Not helping the server? Who spammed Kim to add cwkpq? Oh wait it’s me everyday or the facestompers that will come along with pb,plssssss
     
    Last edited: Jul 18, 2019
  2. Fishy
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    Fishy Skelegon Retired Staff

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    You’re right, what was I thinking :/ , I need to be more considerate and think for the future of ML. I’ve complained since it released but since I’m 200, I don’t get exp so it doesn’t matter anymore. Sorry for being closed-minded
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
    • Creative Creative x 1
  3. Dvah
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    Dvah Pac Pinky

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    Finally we agree with something.

    Now spam her with stormcaster gloves and vip items
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  4. Oradious
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    Oradious Mr. Anchor

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    You are assuming skar even shaolins lul

    Anyways, with the scenario you gave just now (dual mage/dual leecher), the mage is obviously gonna get lesser exp (iirc it was 63mil for my mage), but the 2 leechers gets a lil over 40mil exp IIRC.

    To give more insight, when I solo leech at petri, it is around 75mil eph for the mage, and 30mil for the leecher. At shaolin, when I solo leech, the mage gets 95mil eph, and the leecher gets 44mil exp.

    All of this, of course, with SI.
     
  5. Selquin
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    Selquin Headless Horseman

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    If we are considering only mage eph then shaolin isnt actually that impressive compared to skeles or petris.
    1 hit petri split w/ SI mage eph is around 60m
    1 hit skeles split without SI is around 50m (could be slightly off with this one its been a while)
    Leecher ephs are a bit more skewed towards shaolin
    1hit petri split w/SI level 120 leecher eph is about 26m (at least when I do it lul)
    1hit skeles split without SI level 120 leecher eph is about 22m
    *all exp rates are without any event bonus

    If you correct for the higher levels of shaolin leechers, it works out that shaolin 5-6f duo mage leech is roughly ~25% faster than petris. I think this is actually pretty reasonable given the extra pot burn and lack of drops that you trade off by going to shaolin. I would even argue thats its more macro efficient to leech at skeles/petris/ulu2 instead, but thats a bit off topic.

    Of course this only looks at the dual mage scenario, and we are ignoring other types of shaolin parties. However I think most people would agree that duo mage is the most degenerate type of shaolin strategy, as it essentially involves holding a button down in 1 spot. I think other forms are shaolin training are fine. For example solo mage shaolin actually requires the mage to actual move around the map to hit as they normally would in other maps. In fact I'm pretty sure 3 hit solo mage is actually faster(or at least comparable) in speed to duo mage, people just choose to do dual mage because its far easier). Shaolin parties with non-mages actually moving around and attacking are fine as well, I think this sort of thing is actually healthy for the game.

    Let me clear up this idea that there is a consensus among players that shaolin is the best map to train in the game. This is not true. There are several other ways to train that offer their own advantages over shaolin, and many high level players understand this and opt to use these different methods. The reason that shaolin is so popular is because it is easy, not necessarily because the numbers themselves are imbalanced
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  6. akashsky
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    akashsky Horntail

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    One thing I want to add is that although my mages are strong, they are not yet strong ENOUGH to kill mobs at shoalin before the spawn timer. My ice lightning 4 hits, and my bishop 5 hits. I would need a 3 hit on my i/l and a 4hit on my bishop to clear the map before spawn is over, so there is definetely improvement available on the EPMs I provided.

    However, to reach what I just described, you would need a bishop with over 1400 magic and an archmage with at least 1300 magic - which isn't something that is easy to get.

    Please share these "different methods". I am under the impression that grinding at shoalin is the most efficient way to gain exp in maplelegends.
     
  7. Selquin
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    Selquin Headless Horseman

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    If your sole goal is to gain exp, then yes shaolin offers the fastest eph available(aside from bga duos or something). However if you value money to some extent, other options such ulu2/skeles/petris become plausible options. For example, leeching high level characters at ulu2 only results in about 20m eph, but you make around 10m/hr in the process. Similarly skeles makes around 6m an hour. It is entirely reasonable to value that extra mesos/hr over the extra exp rates provided by shaolin.
    Another thing high level players often do to gain experience is to spam HT. Many high level attackers have gotten most of their exp through HT runs. The EPH at HT is kind of hard to pin down as it depends on how strong you are/how many people/how long it takes etc, but I would estimate it works out to around 40m eph is you take into account the time it takes to farm dagger/wait for ppl. Its also hard to pin down a mesos/hr for HT since it depends so heavily on rng, but as a very rough estimate I would say your average 1 party runs are somewhere between 10-15m/hr on average. It should also be noted that many people plan to do bosses anyways, so the exp gained here is "inevitable".
    Personally I prefer to balance the progression of my wealth/gear with the progression of my level. Furthermore there are ways to gain exp without making money (shaolin), but there are no consistent ways to make money without gaining exp, which is why I put a lot less value on exp than most.

    Of course to each their own, but plausible alternatives to shaolin that progress goals macro level goals at the same rate certainly do exist.
     
    Last edited: Jul 18, 2019
  8. Lidas
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    Lidas Mixed Golem

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    When everyone talk about exp its making me thing again on one of the main problems i see on the server, leeching.
    Maplestory is very easy for mages. There is not much different (gameplay) between standing on 1 platform spaming attacks or swich between 2 platforms.
    And like eiji said we need to think on the furure. To make it more easy to get exp.
    So i dont see nerfing the maps as an option.

    The positive side i see about how it is now is that shaolin bring players to prty and play in the same area. Making the server look full.
     
  9. Alyosha
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    Alyosha Skelegon Retired Staff

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    Wow this thread became something special pretty quickly. :pinkbean:

    I don't think the argument really became about nerfing the exp so much as about getting rid of the afk element to it for mages, which is pretty agreeable. The fastest method probably shouldn't also be the most afk method. If it were the fastest method while also losing money but wasn't braindead afk then it would be more balanced.

    It's also weird that there's talk of it effecting people other than mages. Misting 5/6 isn't as good as misting Forest of Towers and putting mobs on platforms wouldn't change that in the slightest even if they did want to go there. For 4th job attackers grinding, melee generally go to 7f rather than 5/6, and ranged people are generally more mobile so mobs on platforms wouldn't effect them, or they can go to Forest of Towers because I hear it's not too bad there.

    I wouldn't really mind an exp nerf, 3-5% less exp feels like a fair number, but I'd prefer any nerf to be kept to 5/6 and to a lesser extent 3/4. Gold Martial Artists are also in Forest of Towers and if they were outright nerfed that would be a nerf to some already mediocre ranged exp for solo grinding.

    And I don't even have a level 200 character so that makes my opinion still valid. SlimeAngel
     
    • Agree Agree x 2
  10. Oradious
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    Oradious Mr. Anchor

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    Would also like to iterate that solo leeching at shaolin means I'm not being braindead (or less braindead if you want to look at it that way), in case there are those who still don't get it. FYI, to 3 hit the golds 100% of the time, I believe you need 1352 tma as an F/P. Currently, I 2 hit the silvers (with summon) and 3 hit the golds.
     
  11. MissRainbow
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    MissRainbow Mixed Golem

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    I agree the maps are broken right now. Lets look at the situation:
    Skeles lvl is 110-113
    Petri is also 110
    Shaolin monsters go from 120-130, starting the 1-2F and to 7F.
    I don't think it would be right to lower the exp gained in shaolin to make it comparable to skele/petri simply because I feel that grinding 120-200 with the same eph is, well, too hard(?). I know early days on the server and first people that got to 200 did it, but those days are in the past.

    The main problem imo is that you can get leeched at shaolin since 115, and in 10 lvls (that's not much) get to the map that gives you the highest epm in the game.
    Except the solutions that were already offered about spawning monsters in afk places (I don't particularly agree with it, because almost all maps have safe spots and it should stay like that) I think that the monster lvl should be changed.
    Instead of being 10 lvls from 1st to 7th floor it should be more like 25 lvls gap between each floor.
    Basically 1-2F the monsters are 120
    3-4F now is 120-125 but the silver one can be changed to be 135 for example.
    5-6F is now 125-130 but if the previous change is effective can be 135-150.
    F7 can be 160+ or something.

    This way people could still grind in the map, the exp will still be the same but the lower lvls won't have access to the easy super fast exp of 5-6F without working hard and actually lvling up.

    I'm myself still in the shaolin range and if it will get changed won't be able to train in the 5-6F, but I think it should be changed because those maps are really broken (even though I absolutely love them for obvious reasons).

    This way people still can train like in gs2 (it is still a way to play the game and train, even if some people dislike it) but to get to the really good exp they'll have to lvl and put more effort instead of it being accessible pretty much 5 lvls after 4th job adv.
     
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    • Disagree Disagree x 1
  12. churlee
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    churlee Blue Snail

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    You can still hit the top if you're standing on the floor
     
  13. Fishy
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    Fishy Skelegon Retired Staff

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    yes, but this means, that you cant "afk and spam in 1 spot" , its too easy. if they add mobs to the shelves then people are required to actually move around/ take hits. (EPM is also faster moving around too). Shaolin should get a work around so its not supporting "braindead grinding"
     
  14. Ratsun
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    Ratsun Mano

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    Personally i dont feel like any of those maps are "obsolete". I myself like to train/grind the majority of the time im online, and i personally hardly step foot into shaolin. Spend most of my time in ToT and other maps you say shaolin phased out.
     
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  15. Shivering
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    Shivering Wolfspider

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    Blast from the past in this thread. So many interesting comments reading through this now.
     

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